EPISODE 27 TRANSCRIPT

 

Hello everyone. Welcome back to the star family wisdom podcast. It's so good to be here with you today. I'm Jenna Laden, the founder of star family wisdom, and a former global vice president for whole foods market.

And I'm Sinead Willingham. I'm a former educator and social justice activist and the co-host of the stock grab the wisdom podcast.

They'll start family wisdom is a paradigm shifting podcast, community and modern day mystery school for your spiritual and cosmic evolution.

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It's been so fun chatting with all of you in the comments and although Sinead and I only met last year, the journey and experiences that have led us here were very similar.

Five years ago, we each had experiences that changed our lives forever. And after years of self exploration and research, we know that our reality is so much more expansive and beautiful than we used to believe.

In last year, we quickly became friends and started having long conversations about our experiences and the expansion of consciousness and the reality of extraterrestrials.

And we realized we wanted to share these conversations with you because we feel that this is a pivotal time in human evolution.

We know that we're not alone on this planet. I be want to share that information because we feel like it's time for the world to know that.

So on this podcast, we share information between guests and ourselves through conversation that provide ideas and information to inspire you and support you on this really wild journey of being human.

And we explore untold human origin story, supernatural experiences, lost knowledge from the stars and the spiritual wisdom that empowers you to transform your life for the better.

And since we are experiencers of supernatural phenomena and ITI contact, it's important to us that we have mature and open and fun conversations about what's happening and how we are evolving as humans.

We consider evolution to include all things, woo, magic mindsets, science, spirituality, health, and wellness, and most definitely extraterrestrial. So through these conversations, we want to explore how all of these topics that are seemingly separate, actually connect to inform the evolution of our human experience.

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It's been super fun, connecting and chatting in the comments. And on today's episode, Sinead actually does a solo interview with James Keenan, who we met or Sinead met here in Sedona about two months ago at a conference.

And, and James is doing a lot of research in kind of the DT contact with paranormal field and has done a lot of work around some high strangeness and energetic activity that's happening in kind of the, the desert Southwest area of the United States.

So I'm super excited about this line. You know, we, haven't done a ton of conversation about paranormal activity other than ITI types of activities.

So this will be fun to get into some conversation around other high strangeness. It's pretty fascinating. I mean, it changed is really impressive.

I was really struck by his presentation at the Sedona Ascension conference. That's where I first met him. And it's not that common.

Um, you know, one of the things that you and I focus on in this podcast is making sure that we're really grounding our information, right?

That it's relatable, but it's based on facts and it's based on real evidence, real experience and some James' brains. What is normally approach to the very spooky sensationalized topic, where with a lot of fear around it regarding skin Walker, ranch, specifically flying frog ranch, that whole kind of really energetically poking area of the human interface.

That's where he focuses his work and that's in Utah, right. It's in Utah. And he is, he's just fascinated with this area and many other areas of the world.

He actually travels quite a bit to make sure that he's aligning what he finds in this area with the global trends as you and I talked about in previous episodes.

It's very cool. I love it. He does that. Yeah. Like he really knows how to kind of, um, make the connections to add validity and add evidence to our sort of general uncovering gradually of our human story, better human origin story.

And like really where we really came from and what was really going on here a long time ago. So that's one level of it.

It's the ancient history. He looks at that he looks at the heat of the actual history of the land people.

He looks at the hieroglyphs and the Patrick blips on the walls and analyze it. So it was, uh, so he does all kinds of, uh, earth based research and history research.

But then he's also adding on this layer of looking at the normal MIRI high level activity, especially when I was getting Walker ranch, flying frog ranch now is gaining more traction what the mainstream what's happening at wind progress.

I imagine most people have at least furred of skin Walker ranch, and have heard of some of the high strangeness cattle mutilations and things that have happened there, but what's happening at line frog.

I'm not even that familiar with blind frog. Okay. Yeah. It's just starting to become more known. So it's a really fascinating story.

There's a lot to it, but essentially there's a guy named Wayne wildly gentle man, deeply spiritual. Um, who's also a very intelligent guy, highly educated doing lots of research himself on this land.

He did a presentation at the same conference when I met James about wine frog. I was just like, wow. I think James mentioned it in his presentation a little bit later.

And I started to see the connections between the two. So they're kind of working together a little bit. So what's happening at blind frog is there's a huge amount.

Both in both, um, areas can walk her in blind frog. And also just that general area that you went to Bayside James and Dwayne are fascinated with the fact that, you know, a lot of hard paranormal research up until this day has been with stuff above ground.

Like ghost people are seeing, um, hype UFO. It's just high strangeness, high, strange that's around us. Well, but what they're focusing on is there, there seems to be this huge wealth of strange, you know, more and more electric, um, energetic activity going on underground.

And so Dwayne started drilling into the, or excavating the land at blind frog rats. And one of the things that happened was he started finding very unusually covered earth.

That was a particular color of blue. And yes, you mentioned this the blue earth. Oh my gosh. I'd forgotten. That was blind frog.

Yeah. Yeah. And there's like, rocks. I have that, that kind of tent. And it's very unusual and no can explain why the soil and the rocks and the land over there.

It's blue, it's this blue color. It just doesn't make any sense. Not to mention that when he started getting a little further down, he discovered that that huge amount of water underneath that Atlanta, then when he got far enough down, not only get water started gushing up, which nobody expected in that area, particularly it's just desert, right.

It's just sheer desert. Like there's squat land, that's it. And these folks are coming up hundreds and hundreds of frogs started coming up with a water and they were blind that were very appealed.

They'd obviously never seen like, wow. So they discovered that there's this species of frog living underneath this wound that had been there probably for eons wow.

Functioning entirely underground. It so bad led them to the kind of ecosystem that farms live in and what other kind of life would probably be down there not to mention it.

James is measuring with Dwayne as well. Um, energetic movement under the ground. That is, it shows that there's something under there that isn't moving around.

So now this is making me think about like the inner earth stories and the, you know, there's all these stories and theories about there.

You know, being civilization that might exist somewhere, you know, in the caverns and underground systems are quite expansive that we know.

And so it makes me wonder if there's some sort of connection there somehow some way that would be James thinks that you brought your booklet there giants on record by Jim Vieira and Keanu.

Man, James has referenced that book and also is very into the whole a giants idea because he feels that like Paul Wallace does that a huge amount of evidence, like actual evidence of giants being on this, for example, we still are on this possibly living inside the earth.

I mean, there's so much room in there. <inaudible> so his work is really about what's happening underneath the ground that we can't see.

That's cool. He's using incredible high level technology to measure, um, electronics that Knowles, you know, energetic signals, energetic and booth mate.

There's kindly highly unusual activity going on under there. It's got really high level people working with him. A lot of it is top secret.

He can't tell me a lot of things. And that's how, that's another reason I got in the streets when I met him at the Sedona Ascension conference, because I was so struck by how lacking in that fear based narrative is presentation-wise.

It was just very calm, very matter, lots of passionate, excited about what he was finding, but it wasn't this usual sensationalized, sensationalized fear.

And that, you know, there's something malevolent on skim Walker ranch. There's no real proof that that energy is malevolent, right?

So I love that. And then also afterwards, I went up to him and I said, Hey, you were sewing these two, um, brain scans, you know, after certain people that he couldn't name had things just get Walker Rach, and the brain scans were so evidence of the electronic effect of that, the potent energy that was there when the had is that similar to some of the, the experiences people have had going in some of the sacred sites around the world.

So like we know that people who've gone in the great pyramid in Egypt, for instance, because of the, the energetic, um, kind of structure of that place, the geometry of the pyramid creates this resonant frequency that affects the way people's consciousness operates.

I'm wondering if it's like a very similar situation, somewhat similar. And this was partially after, um, this is one of the things that people think makes them more of a rich scary.

So the two people whose brain scans had been done and it changed. So during this presentation, I'm pretty sure they were both military and high-level military people who had gone to a skin Walker ranch.

And this is definitely back. There are a number of people who were military training, former, um, high-level, you know, police officers or high level military high-level government who were hired upon retirement or upon leaving their profession to work as can walk around you security kind of bought a room, but it was going on.

There was a huge amount of high-tech equipment around the land. Let's happens a lot. Cause these guys and women already have high level clearance, so they can just kind of continue to operate in that world.

Yeah. Yes. And we don't know what's really going on. Right. And people cannot go onto skin Walker, ranch, James camp.

He's got clearance interested in working with someone who's very high level and he can say to that person is so there's a lot of fascinating mystery, but in any case, so going back to the military, uh, being on the land previously, this is like a few years ago or 10 years ago, maybe.

Um, there were, there was a fact of factual story. This is proven that, um, there were four, I think military men who'd been on the land that's can walk a ranch and had absolutely terrifying experiences for whatever reason.

There's a theory that it's because they were armed. They were, they appeared to be aggressive. They had guns. They had, you know, well, yeah, you know, that's what possibly is going to come back at you.

Right. So, so who knows why it's behaves this way, but they were not killed or, or hurt or anything like that.

They were just, it was a major psychological impact and, um, whatever occurred to them they're follow them home. So that started affecting them in different ways, on a personal level, but also their brain, their neural synopsis, their psychology seemed to be a thunder.

And so that's what was being studied for the brain scans. So I would have to gain back afterwards. And I asked him if he's like, are these brain scans related to that story that I'd read about and heard about that?

I knew it was fact-based, you know, it's somewhat secretive it's for sure. And he said, I can't tell you. So I was like, okay, are you nodding?

Because that's it yes. I'm sticking to your problems. But it was, it was kind of, we don't know, we can't say yeah, maybe.

So I was intrigued. I was intrigued by, you know, obviously his integrity is really true to keeping confidentiality about what's going on, but also has a nice balance with sharing what you can share in a very young, your base way to very peaceful.

Isn't this fascinating look at the real science and the real evidence that is supporting this paranormal activity. Diversity. It's a really fantastic coach and he's a lovely guy.

So it was really nice. Uh I'm so I'm so excited about this because I think this, this is one of our passions, right?

Delivering research information, uncovering more about our reality, but doing it from a place of, we don't have to be fearful about all of these things.

Right. But there are ways we can maybe begin to understand some of the high strangeness and paranormal things that have been occurring on earth for a long time.

Maybe we can explain them now in a little different way, you know, maybe we're, maybe we are evolving in a way where we can now move beyond fear.

Yes. I really, really hope so. And I think, you know, there's something about this, that it reminded me a little bit of when we talked to Sarah Russman cosmetics and she said that at one point she was in a session.

I don't remember if it was a client or per, who was in the session to regression session, but that they had traveled to a past life where she was about to go deeper into the sinks and find out more of what's underneath his things.

And the beings that were guiding her were saying, I'm sorry, we can't take you any further. This is information that is so important.

And so coping that humans have to be ready to receive. It's not, not right now, not right now. And so if there seems to be a little bit of that with this information as well, that, you know, the beings, for example, they're, so-called malevolent beings.

There's a, there's a growing theory that they required some skin Walker or a blind frog or wherever they are a job, um, that matches with indigenous wisdom about how there could be a very powerful entity on the land that is actually fiercely protect the guardian.

But what is, what is there? I just got chills when I say guardian. Yeah. So, I mean, it's still happening.

Yeah. Always, always. So, yeah, so it's just, it's really exciting. I actually just got a little bit of myself. I'm starting to help them more.

You're rubbing off on me, but, um, yeah, it's just really exciting and it really, it opens up so many doors into so many levels of uncovering this, you know, like the paranormal aspect of your psychological aspect, which is so much a part of our transition, addressing fear in order to see the truth of what's there.

And trying to understand that you're normal, that, you know, without just assuming it's something scooped out together that is trying to communicate in some way and we need to learn to listen to its language.

I love that. And I think that that connects to what I was just thinking about in regards to, you know, it would be a cool experiment to visit this land, but from a place of asking the guardian permission to come and commune with the land and commune with the energy, that's there to learn more, right?

Because I have a feeling so much of, you know, our, our human kind of approach to these things has been, let's go study it and research it rather than this different approach, which we take in a lot of our practice, which is let's be friend the energy that's around us.

Let's get to know the guardians of this earth and the guardian, the nature, and S you know, animal spirit guardians, and, and, and ask permission to access certain information, certain spaces and, and have them take us on the initiation process rather than approaching it from this purely scientific research base.

And we both believe there's a place for both, but yeah, but I think that would be such a fun approach.

And we should maybe share in one of our previous episodes, we've talked about how we are doing a road trip through parts of the desert, Southwest, to commune with the land and do a, a type of spiritual pilgrimage.

And we've talked about the idea of also doing something similar in the Uintah basin and maybe Sinead, or both of us, you visiting that land to, to do some more commuting and research on this topic.

I really feel like, you know, in relation to what you were just saying, we don't listen to it. You know, like we, we just immediately have a fear response, or if we don't have a fear response, we are kind of imposing ourselves upon it, right?

Like we are going to go and study this. We are going to find out what it is. We are going to go and do this to it or on it with it.

But there's not a lot of, Hey, I'm here. I'm receptive. What do you want to tell me? I'm here to listen.

I'm here. Like just that alone, as, as said in, you know, every possible, um, spiritual, I don't know, manifestation of faith or whatever in the universe, you know, in our planet.

Anyway, that was one of the tenants that you have to be able to receive, right? If you want to live a spiritual life, or do you want to live a wise life, you had to be able to receive what is going on around us.

And I mean, that's one of the thing, Sarah Breslin, classmates references, and so many other people that there's so much information around us all the time that we can't see and we can't feel.

And so we just trust it because we think, well, it's just at the error. It's not, it's real information. So the more we get into things like what James is doing, the more validity there is in these experiences of picking up information from something, someone at energy field, whatever it could be, um, that is becoming more measurable, it's becoming more discoverable and it's becoming more validatable if that's a word, um, which is really exciting.

There's these, this is one of the things I mentioned before. A couple of times that really excites me the intersection of these different schools of thoughts, knowledge they're coming together more and more and more, and technology is helping us do that incredible technology he has and what that reveals.

So there's just so much going on, even in just this one conversation. I last too. Yeah. It's really exciting. James is excited.

You can see his passion for what he's doing, and I can't wait to go out there to that land. I really feel a pole.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can feel it too. Yeah. Especially, especially now after having this conversation. So yeah. Let's get into it and get into the episode with James.

I think you guys are going to love, oh, you really are. He's wonderful. Follow his work. He's published novels that are fiction, but they're based on his experiences and the evidence that he's found.

It's also published a great deal of factual information and he does conferences and speaking engagements all over the world. So look for him in a wonderful balance, presenter of this fascinating, exciting information.

Yeah. Check out his information in the show notes. We got all the info there and have fun. We'll see ya.

On the other side. Hello, everyone. Welcome back to star family wisdom. This is Sinead Willingham with you today. And we're about to have a wonderful conversation with James Keenan, who I came across upon, uh, during the Sedona Ascension conference, I was in Sedona a few weeks ago and James was presenting there and he was talking about what we mentioned in the intro.

He is tracking the paranormal activity, that's occurring in the Uintah basin, but also matching that or connecting that with history and with many, um, factual, you know, factual pieces of evidence that have supported what's happening in the paranormal world and the energetic world in terms of the UN two basis.

Um, so it's very interesting how James is bringing these two factual and paranormal aspects together and making sense of them for people.

And also we really appreciate that. He, he does not bring in the fear approach. He's not playing up the sort of horror fear aspect of these unusual things that can occur.

He's bringing a very calm matter of fact approach. And we really appreciate that because we feel like living in a state of fear is not something that benefits anybody.

So James would that appreciation and a warm welcome. Thank you so much for being here with us today. Much appreciated.

And how are you? Good. Thanks Nate, for having me. I appreciate it. We're very glad to have you been looking forward to this since I saw you in Sedona a few weeks ago.

So why don't we start with letting our audience get to know you by talking a bit about what you were like in your early life, because for many people who are in the paranormal world, um, sometimes it creeps up on them by surprise, but sometimes it's there and our early experiences in some way or another, whether or not it's our curiosity or imagination or unusual experiences.

So you have been on this path for quite a while, but how did you start when you were a child, when you were a teenager, when did this begin for you?

What's your origin story? Sure. So, uh, I had a near death experience before the age of two. Uh, I drown, uh, wasn't brought back for about seven to 10 minutes and, uh, have very good memory since the moment, uh, that occurred, uh, onward.

And, uh, even the, in between, I guess you could say, uh, it also included a few years later, probably starting around the age of four with, uh, I guess what people would consider shadow figures.

So, uh, I guess the paranormal was, uh, very early in life and I, you know, as I aged, I, I'm more grounded in the science and I'm obviously open for both.

I know that, uh, at some point we'll be able to figure out what, uh, you know, people label as, uh, high, strange newness or paranormal is really, uh, something that I believe we'll be able to, uh, be labeled as scientific at some point, it's just understanding what those capabilities are, you know, everything is matter and energy and how we perceive it to maybe different in some stages of, uh, what we occupied currently, you know, whether you call it 3d or, you know, the world we live in, uh, it's just a different type of matter and energy.

So, uh, being open to what occurred when I was younger and kind of wanting to understand it better, you know, from an adult perspective, uh, it led me down that pathway, but, you know, in between, uh, I ended up going into law enforcement.

So for, well, it was law enforcement and private investigations. So for 20 plus years, uh, I was in, uh, two to two different law enforcement departments and, uh, and companies where I helped assist or run their loss prevention or special investigations for insurance companies in their fraud.

So I've a very good understanding of investigation and what that encompasses anywhere from interviewing individuals to gathering data or collecting evidence, chain of custody, which is extremely important.

Uh, and, you know, there came a point several years back where I was burned out and tired of that, and I really wanted to take everything that I had learned and what I understood and apply it to what I find exciting, which is this understanding of, uh, high strangeness or the atypical, uh, occurrences that are happening in the world.

Uh, my degrees are in interdisciplinary studies with a major focus in anthropology and archeology, uh, especially in Mesoamerican culture. And I think the reason I was always so interested in that is I have this understanding that we've lost this huge amount of history, uh, in data from the past and that there were other cultures, civilizations, maybe other species that were here and we have bits and pieces in the historical data, you know, whether it be oral tradition, petroglyphs, pictographs, artifacts, things of that nature.

And it seems to tie into what you would label as high strangeness or paranormal in certain degrees, or maybe just the fact that there was intelligence here that was far more advanced than we were.

And it's hard for us to gain a grip or get a grip as to how that's even possible. But when you think of how long the earth has been here, that, you know, if these cultures existed millions of years ago, there wouldn't be much evidence left of mother, then maybe oral tradition, folklore, and mythology.

And I'm really hoping that through the investigations that take place in the UN top base and, you know, and when you talk about that, you're talking about a skin Walker, ranch and blind frog ranch being up in the UN top base and you and Tom mountains, there's a high strangeness, but I think it's tied into a lot more.

I think it goes back into the history that we can see through, uh, the indigenous people that were there for thousands of years, that this has been occurring.

And then it's all over the world and there's this connectivity, uh, there's these beings are people of great stature. Uh, you know, some people will label them as giants that I'm very interested in because they seem to have the hand in so much that we consider paranormal now.

And, uh, these sites around the world that are megalithic, uh, that people are so interested in. And we know so very little about their history.

It always seems to tie back to a major catastrophic event and giants, uh, you know, the birth of civilization. A lot of people don't know this, but a lot of origin isn't just Sumeria, but it's ancient Armenia.

And you have these two giants that were fighting for power hike and bell. And you have what a few people know that the, uh, the Celts, the, uh, the ancient Gaelic and the Golic, you know, the Welsh and the Irish more than likely originated from the mountains of ancient Armenia, which are now, you know, as their advisor, John Turkey, Georgia, and Armenia.

So it's just having to piece all this data together over the, you know, the last decade or so there's this too much connectivity.

So that's what I like to bring about to the public. And in the process of doing that, I try to bring in a great deal of science, especially using a lot of new technology that hasn't been available until the last decade.

And some of it's so new that it's only been out the last four or five years. Um, and it's just amazing what the potential is for using that in such an investigation of this nature.

Yeah. It really seems like, you know, we're living in a truly fascinating time in terms of data collection and information cohesion, because we're seeing all this intersectionality that is, uh, between schools of thought or, you know, schools of knowledge, medicine, physics, science, that are intercepting in a way to validate, um, as you were kind of subtly saying, just now paranormal activity has been occurring for who knows how long.

So, so I want to just touch on before we go any further, because you did such a beautiful introduction. That's pretty much everything we're going to be talking about in more depth during this interview, but going back to your very early beginnings with the NDE, this is a topic that, uh, has been coming up for a lot of people in a more mainstream way, like NBE seem to be breaking through or crossing over, I guess, into the mainstream in a way where people are able to question it and see it as something that is reasonable, a reasonable possibility now, right?

And while the evidence is stuff that's going on with MBE is to validate that there is life after death, the consciousness continues, the body does not, but the consciousness does.

So you have this as your first pivotal life experience in this life. Do you remember anything about the NDE and do you see any connection between that early experience and what you're doing now, other than obviously having had a high strangeness experience, was there anything you saw or experienced or heard or were told, you know, during that NDE that has anything to do with what you're doing now?

Yeah. So my ND, uh, I, I'm very aware of what occurred when I was, you know, what I would consider no longer here.

Um, but when I hear what other people have, you know, had occur to them, it's not what I experienced it.

It's difficult to explain to people just based upon the fact that I don't think, you know, senses that we understand and comprehend this reality that we live right now is really in play after that.

Um, and so it's extremely difficult to explain what occurred. Uh, I always tell people, it, it, it was darkness, but th that's the incorrect way, I guess, to label it.

It wasn't that it was darkness. It was that there was no visual, you know, occurrence happening during this time. It was more what I would consider maybe like an ether or just this realm where everything exists and that there was this collective of thought and consciousness, everything worked as one and individual at the same time.

Um, there was a greater understanding of, I think more of, of who we are, what we are that, uh, lives past this body that we currently have.

And I always tell people, especially if, if you've known me from an earlier age, uh, I remember absolutely everything and I wasn't quite two years old.

I I'm capable of, you know, recalling, I guess, almost at what you would consider adult level of recollection. And, uh, in regards to, you know, other paranormal activity that happened a couple years after that, I'm still trying to understand.

And I think it all deals with, uh, electromagnetic force, uh, magnetic force and just maybe a different on a hate using.

Dimentionality just, I think everything exists on top of it, of us and layers. And I hate to throw out, you know, the people use quantum physics or this word quantum and 99% of the time they're using it incorrectly where I really unders I really believe that we're just talking about a charged matter or a, an energy being connected at some point.

So I think there's a very good possibility of maybe within the next 10 or 20 years, really understanding how that, uh, those layers fit together and how we're capable of reaching out and crossing over to that, uh, whether you consider it a, an ND or an experience, you know, and I always find this really interesting in the last two years, I've had the opportunity to meet a lot of physicist and a lot of individuals that worked in the military, uh, or like with, for Robert Bigelow or Top secret Projects.

And it blows my mind that the two things that they are most interested in has nothing to do with what we would consider science.

It has to do with the afterlife and remote viewing that these are the two most important topics for, for some of the most intelligent people that are currently living it.

It's just, I find that freakishly weird kind of looking, you know, in a new book came out recently, that was a skin walkers in the Pentagon and you read it and you think it, it it's a science fiction author.

And then you look who, who the authors are. And you're just, you're like, wow, you know, one's a physicist. One was an engineer for the DIA the defense intelligence agency.

So, so there's obviously something legitimate about the science and what we would consider, uh, atypical understanding, uh, that the two are absolutely connected and that there was this history of other cultures and civilizations that were far more ahead of the curve than we currently are right now.

They just no longer exist because of cataclysmic events that can be shown and proven, and we're playing catch up right now.

And, um, I always hate to use this phrase, but, you know, the, the science moves forward one death at a time.

Uh, um, just meaning that, uh, you know, uh, as, uh, newer generations take over, uh, I think they're more open to exploring and researching and collecting data points that were taboo in the past, Um, equity, a grade on like, you know what, you're actually making me think of a couple of things.

When you were mentioning the number of really high qualified, successful, intelligent people who are fascinated with this topic, that's something I would like to just emphasize for a minute, because there's such stigma, you know, about the, the, the world that you and I rotate in by this world of high strangeness of the paranormal at the unexplainable, the, you know, the ineffable.

Um, but what has shocked me is that, you know, I used to feel that way. I thought that everybody was just tinfoil hat wearers, and, you know, maybe people that didn't quite have their feet on the ground, you know, that kind of stuff, because that's what filters down to us, right?

That's the so-called information that filters down to us on the very mainstream level of society. This is what we're fed, but if you actually start reading about it and you start asking questions and looking into it with an open mind, I was amazed.

Same as you out about how many, highly intelligent, successful, thoughtful, grounded people who are also big hearted. A lot of them are involved in this field and are at the progressive edge of it as I feel like you are.

So I want to go back to what you were saying as well about, um, you know, the fact that these people are getting into remote viewing, they're getting into different kinds of physics, you know, a whole different, different kinds of questions entirely than what we're used to in terms of what's asked in the scientific world, and you are talking about this kind of stuff in a way that I find fascinating, because you're talking about the history again, you know, the history, the factual evidence that's there, but then also all this unexplainable stuff.

And part of what's unexplainable than you've experienced is energetic anomalies that you see in that you went to base it.

And you were talking during your Sonoma presentation, Sedona presentation story about, um, electrical energy that was shooting, I think in a parallel way through the Uinta basin from a wall face or something like that.

If you can give a couple of examples about what you've experienced energetically, that would be fascinating to hear about ER, so on the UN tub base.

And I was using multiple different types of magnetometers and gradiometers, um, measuring, uh, the magnetic fields at, uh, hundreds and hundreds of locations through the base and in the mountains.

And there's certain locations where you have these highly anomalous readings, um, anywhere from like, uh, in a very low negative micro Tesla to around 89, 90 micro Tesla, meaning those negative numbers are showing cavities or voids underground, or that's what it should represent.

And these high numbers are representing something that's NASA magnetic underground, but here's the strange thing is, so I found these four points.

They line up perfectly, they're parallel. They match up with these underground cavern systems that I've been tracking for years, and I've been pushing and pushing this fact that there's a lot below our feet that we're just not aware of.

It is because it's been covered up, you know, over whether it be thousands or millions of years, but it shouldn't be in one place reading from this negative micro Tesla to this high reading, it, it should be, uh, an atypical Reeb lower high.

So what does this entail? Well, something is transient below our feet. It's moving and we don't quite understand how that's working, but we're re we're looking more and more into what people, uh, they say, oh, it's a portal or a gateway.

And we have these all over the world that we've seen like a Mara Maru and, uh, lake Titicaca in Bolivia, Peru.

Um, we see one or two, what looked to possibly be that on the base and you have in Jordan or in Syria, a couple of those like, uh, mitoses, uh, door cave way and what these really are.

And NASA is even looking into it currently as what we would consider an electron diffusion region, meaning we're having these ma this high magnetic wave interact with this electromagnetic field.

And what does that do that charges? Uh, these particles, highly charged particles are created when these two come in contact with each other and they're charged no matter, I mean, you're, you're talking about the most energetic energy that we understand.

And NASA is measuring that currently with four satellites directly above the earth. And there's this portal or gateway between the middle of the sun right over to the earth, which is 93 million mile difference that they're opening for a split second or for multiple seconds.

So why is that potential not available inside the earth? Because the planets are just a small star. They still act in the same, uh, pattern that, you know, the, their energy is usually typical of what a star is.

So at these electron diffusion regions, uh, which is part of my hypothesis, you had these indigenous people, you know, we we'll, we'll call them as we get closer to our time, native Americans, you know, talking about this in the oral tradition, talking about this in the petroglyphs pictographs that they're interacting with these gateways and these portals.

So they were already aware of this energy, this energy exists, like nowhere else that I've seen on the UN top basin and in the UN Thom mountains.

Now I have a very sneaky suspicion that Mount Aira rat, which is now in Turkey is probably another one of those main locations.

Uh, people bring up Sedona. You know, I, I live here in Arizona. I have, I've never experienced what I've seen in several other places in Sedona.

So I would kind of rule that out. Other people always ask me about lay lines. Um, I used to not believe in them, but it's kind of interesting when you look at what people have laid down as these lay lines that like salt lake city seems to have like a massive amount of these coming together and two or three of those cross, right over the skin Walker, ranch and blind frog ranch area.

Um, and you look at non-air erratic Dan, or you look in Bolivia kuru and you have these running, I mean, right through these portal areas.

So I think we're just at the precipice of relearning a lost science or, um, understanding energy. Uh, and I, I think true particle physics, true quantum physics is right there, and it's going to lead us in that direction.

And it'll be really interesting to match it up with what we have already seen or know from the past cultures and civilizations, what little bits and pieces we have, you know, you hear about ask LAN at, you know, at Lantus new, um, I'm a firm believer that these more advanced cultures existed.

Uh, there's just too much evidence, uh, that they were mythology and folklore. I just don't believe that any longer. I don't think I ever did.

I, I just, I want to be able to provide concrete evidence that at some point, and I think I still got a good 20 or 25 years left in me.

So, uh, I we're getting there. Um, you know, the new show secret, a skin Walker ranch season through, uh, episode two was yesterday.

Um, they're on to something. Uh, I appreciate the fact that they show the UAP that seemed to be right next to the portal or the event that's occurring above the triangle.

Cause, uh, that triangle what's below it is really what's most important because either that energy is creating the phenomena that we're seeing, or it's attracting a lot of phenomenon to that location because of how energetic it is.

Yes. And can you just clarify what the triangle is just for listeners who might not be aware? Sure. So that the triangle is just a location that made up of, uh, two dirt roads and a stream or a Creek that looked like a triangle from above, from an aerial viewpoint on skin Walker ranch.

And, uh, when I was on the, the show, uh, I explained, uh, and actually showed my presentation where these data points that I've collected these anomalies occurring when right through the triangle.

Uh, I showed that part of my hypothesis was it has to be some type of water event that's helping it.

Sure enough when they drilled there was these underwater streams or creeks and 5,000 feet plus above the triangle, there seems to be what we would consider a portal and a lot of UAP occurring.

Uh, just last night, they captured again another UAP occurrence, uh, and there's all this strange RFE F EMF that's occurring there.

Uh, that registers, I used to think it was only at three gigahertz. That's what I've been able to collect, um, with the UIP that I've interacted with.

But, uh, the two physicist on the show are showing that it seems now to be more between 1.6 gigahertz and three gigahertz is the, you know, that prime range of the spectrum that really needs to be evaluated, uh, more and looked at, maybe interacted with.

And I have a lot of ideas as to how to make the phenomena interact more, uh, within that, uh, radiation within that spectrum.

Oh my goodness. That will be incredibly exciting. So we definitely have to have you back then. We're already having you back for a part two, just to talk about, you know, what's going to happen in that situation, but I just want to ask you, because you're touching on so many things that I, I love.

Um, so when you, I just want to touch on the, uh, the portal mentioned, cause you were saying there's a, there's a portal or what is believed to be a portal 5,000 feet above skin Walker ranch.

Can you explain that a little bit more because I keep thinking about our audience and how they're, you know, how they're going to be able to interpret what you're saying.

And so a portal is something, you know, again, referring to the sort of mainstream understanding that we have, you see something, you see something, you see a whirling circle and it opens and then there's a doorway and you go through it like in the Marvel movies, you know, in Marvel comics, but in your actual experience, what does it really like?

But when you're, when you are around a portal or underneath it, experiencing it some way, what do you see, what you experience?

So, uh, everything is through, uh, seeing a change in the radiation, uh, in the spectrum. You're, you're monitoring stuff that shouldn't be occurring all at once.

Uh, and then all of a sudden out of nowhere, you'll see UAP, um, do you know what's around it? Okay.

And, and identified Ariel to the UFO Sure. Or UFO, right. Um, it's there. And then suddenly it's not, uh, there seems to be targeted energy at certain individuals.

So if we're looking at a targeted energy, what better place for the military to have been conducting, um, gathering and collect collection of the scientific data and that skin Walker ranch, because they, more than likely were aware that it was occurring.

Now we see it's been weaponized in the Hosanna syndrome. Um, but staying away from anything negative, there's, there's a need to understand what's occurring, uh, in order to move or shift, uh, our scientific paradigm, uh, and be able to interact with, uh, the paranormal.

Uh, I don't, I think maybe at some point we'll completely get rid of that word paranormal and we'll, we'll start, you know, saying, Hey, we're able to interact with whoever it is or, or whatever other layer is.

There. There seems to be a compression of energy, which has this space, time differential occurring, meaning we see the past or things in the past, starting to interact with the present.

And it's for a limited amount of time, whatever's in the past is aware of us. And we're aware of it for a while.

Uh, whether that be, uh, a dire Wolf that we know has existed, uh, in the 1990s. And unfortunately there's somethings I have to stay away from base, you know, because of an NDA or something like that.

So I can't get into as much detailed, but it happens more than, uh, than people know about. Um, so something, uh, along the line of, of an electron diffusion region and these charged particles being, uh, created and going into a very, very tiny limited area, imagine that amount of energy, this, this incredible amount of energy being focused into a little, little tiny spot up in the sky, what it would do, um, what, what is that capable of creating?

And that's where we get into what people think of portals and all that. I don't think it's, you know, what people would like for it to be or what they say.

Um, I mean, it's possible that it could take different forms based upon, uh, maybe the weather pattern or what's available in the sky.

Maybe that's why people see, um, like a swirling or something that's interactive. Maybe it's just a deeper dive into the energy that's available that we can't see with our visible, uh, with our eyes.

So maybe it is happening. And at some point maybe people are able to see some other type of phenomenon occurring that, uh, shows that a portal's forming or has formed, um, which I just haven't, uh, seen with my own eyes, but maybe it's a matter of having the right technology facing the right direction at the right time that will capture it because it's amazing what FLIR footage is starting to show, you know, thermal imaging, um, and infrared, uh, technology.

It's seeing things that we just don't see in the visible light spectrum. So maybe it's just a matter of being in the right place at the right time in the future.

And, you know, I'll be up there, uh, in June, uh, starting this year as investigation and data collection. And that's definitely, uh, you know, one of the top five things on my list is to really have that, uh, technology focused up into the sky, uh, more so than, you know, on the ground like I have in the past.

Uh, interesting, interesting, interesting. I'd love that. And actually you're touching on yet. Again, something that I find that I just love, which is the, uh, the knowledge, the actual fact that we have now, you know, science has proved this, that we can't see everything that is happening around us.

Our human eye is only capable of seeing a certain amount of the light spectrum. And so we're not able to see what is actually all around us all the time.

And I love that. I love that science has finally proved that because it gives more legitimacy to the experience of, uh, you know, the paranormal high, strange as beings being around us that we can interact with and hear or sense, but not actually see with our eyes.

So do you think that one of the ways that we can increase, um, clarity of contact and our knowledge and understanding of what is occurring, do you think that part of it is honing in, on our own senses and our own abilities that we already have as humans that we don't make use of, you know, those skills or abilities, talents, intuition that all of us have that we are discouraged from using that we're told, you know, it's ridiculous or nonsensical, uh, but it's coming much, much more to the forefront of science right now, as well, right?

The mind body connection and the intelligence of intuition. That's another field that is rising and provenance. So do you think that that is part of, what's going to help us connect with this, these other layers of our reality?

Yeah, absolutely. Like I said, I was kind of taken by the fact that, um, some well-known physicists seem to, you know, be headed down that path that, um, our capabilities are far greater than what we believe they are currently or what we've thought they were in the past.

At least the past that we're aware of. Um, I think some people are even more in tuned with whatever is occurring and maybe that's why they're affected more so by certain types of radiation, uh, around us.

And I think maybe we might get a better understanding by, uh, following up with them and seeing what those, those different patterns are, whether they're brain waves or just being open to something.

Um, that'd be really interesting, but yeah, I, 100% believe that our capabilities, you know, we're taught at such a young age, that science is the only thing.

Um, and, and the science that we know of, and you're not allowed to go out of that box and that a lot of stuff is just, you know, woo.

And, um, I don't think that that's true. I think that there's going to be this greater understanding that the two meet and we move, you know, further down the road, uh, or farther into our, um, understanding based upon melding those two together at, at some point I think right now is just a great time of, uh, this, this new understanding, you know, a lot of stuff has come out, uh, especially recently with the government releasing so much data on, you know, these unidentified aerial phenomena and the capabilities that they have or beyond our understanding and, you know, maybe our own, yeah.

Maybe our own capabilities are right now beyond our understanding. And we'll get to that point. Yeah. I certainly think that they are.

I mean, I'm definitely with you on that. I, one of my own questions for example, is the majority of our body is made up of water.

Water is, you know, a very energetic, uh, energetically transferring for us way to transfer the energy. We know that everything is made up of a vibration and of energy.

So water certainly holds energy and can vibrate. And I often wonder how much of that is part of our sensory ability.

If I are sensing that something, is there something is present or sensing of another consciousness, there's a lot of wonderful new science that we're getting into these days.

So I fully fully agree with you that we're living in a very exciting time, a very exciting time. And, you know, if you're, if you're existing only in meeting the mainstream reality, whether or not you want to call it the 3d, whatever it is, um, you might only think that we're living in a very troubling time, right?

We're going through a pandemic, there's now a war happening. No, one's quite sure how that's going to go. Um, the, you know, rise of fascism around the world.

We're not going to get into politics and this discussion we avoided on the podcast, but just that, you know, climate change, economic unrest, there's so much going on that makes people stressed out and makes them afraid.

Yet, if you look beneath the surface of what is being delivered to us on a mainstream level, there's a lot of incredible stuff happening in the world.

And a lot of incredible people doing incredible things, both of those things exist side by side. And I feel like your work is highlighting that like your work is at the forefront of where we need to go with our knowledge and understanding.

So bringing it back to your work, um, there's a expression that someone wants to use someone famous who said that we live life forwards, but we learn it backwards, right?

We learn by reflecting, we learned by mapping backwards. And you're at, you're using that as an aspect of your work, but utilizing science and technology that's available right now, but also utilizing all of them, mythology, folklore, you know, um, oral traditions and wisdom of the ancient people who were here on this land, as well as the history of just what was occurring at those times.

Can you talk a little bit about what you found in terms of the first nations people and the people before that perhaps who held this knowledge and this wisdom of all these other things that are going on that we have been taught are ridiculous.

They took to be normal, to be part of their reality, to be part of what was occurring in their life as humans, our evolution as human beings.

Can you talk a little bit about that because there's certainly a wide juxtaposition between the two times. Sure. And you touched upon it a little bit.

Um, you know, when we talk about the indigenous people, the native Americans, they're rich, their culture is rich. And, um, the, this phenomena occurring when they're using music sound differently.

And what are we talking about? We're talking about a frequency of vibration, you know, wavelengths, and we are building better technology that creates, or has the potential of creating more and more energy.

But I don't think that's really necessary. I think the energy that's necessary to, to get past where we are, we all have it already.

It's just a matter of knowing where we need to be, where the energy is available and altering or shifting, uh, that wavelength or the frequency or the sound, or maybe it's multiples of that at one time.

And in oral tradition of the native Americans and those before them, uh, I'll call them the indigenous people or those that were here before, because we have this history where the native Americans say they weren't, you know, our ancestors, we don't know who they were in the petroglyphs and pictographs in the artifacts.

There's some really telling signs of something occurring that we've lost understanding of you see these designs or these events that they're trying to map or leave for future posterity of the events that occurred in the past.

And they look like they were plasma events in the sky, or some type of energy occurring where things were opening up, whether that be, you know, what we would label as a portal and other beings coming out, or maybe the fact that in a different state of mind, uh, with the right wavelength or frequency around them, they're capable of seeing whatever these creatures or beings are.

And you, the, it almost seems like the, the farther back that you go in the history, it gets crazier and crazier, or it's, you're like, you know, what, what the heck were they involved in or what were they trying to make record of?

And you see this, not just in the desert Southwest, but you see it all over the world, but you see it in greater grouping in certain parts of the world, such as the desert Southwest.

So maybe it's because the location, again, contain that energetic ability that was necessary for these things to occur. Uh, how that is.

We don't know. I I'm not, I don't know. Um, it may have been lost for a while. Right now it seems like the potential is growing again, or is back to where it was in the past.

Whether we be somewhere in the galaxy or the universe or in the solar system that we were at thousands of years ago, and we're passing through it now and it's affording us that opportunity.

Um, or we're just now recognizing what they knew in the past and how to use that. Uh, it's there, it's in the historical data.

It's just a matter of learning how to interpret it. And I always tell people two things, you know, the petroglyphs, pictographs and artifacts are subjective.

Uh, you know what I think they could be. Someone else may think there's something different. The only person that would ever know is the person who created them or the artists, you know, you call it rock art, but should it really be considered art?

Maybe it was a story or, or documentation occurring. Maybe they were told that the only way for it to, uh, you know, with stand the test of time was to put it on the best, medium possible that has the best opportunity of not going anywhere.

But yeah, so, so we're seeing this. And then the, the other thing is in the petroglyphs and pictographs in the artifacts in certain locations, like in Utah, we're missing huge chunks of normal daily life.

Things that should be common, that should have been put into the petroglyphs and pictographs are missing at certain periods in time, you know, and I'll call them the barrier canyon style and the Fremont culture.

Uh, they were really desert archaic people. We don't really know who they were or who they became or where they went.

I feel like, uh, they later turned into the Aztec who we would know as the Azteca, as they migrated south ward, but we're missing my knees, corn, uh, houses daily life.

And they're filled instead with these anthropomorphic and zoomorphic figures, that don't make sense. Um, w we're seeing these atypical or, or symmetrical designs that have things coming out of them, or we see these figures with six fingers and six toes or six figures in huge feet that I believe, uh, representing people of great stature or what we would consider giants.

And there there's this, this rich historical data that's been lost that at some point we need to maybe come across something that will allow us to understand what it really means.

And I feel that there is some type of site, uh, or some type of hall of records or some type of location that contains brass copper gold plates.

That's below ground. One of those locations, uh, I'm a firm believable firm believer from the data points I've collected may very well be in the UN Tom mountains.

Uh, I think there's also a good potential that it's around the great salt lake as well. One of those two locations, you know, we've talked about hall of records being in Egypt, uh, possibly an Ecuador in the <inaudible> cave system.

Uh, they wouldn't have just put it in one or two locations, whoever they were before us, that great civilizations that were more advanced, they would have known to spread this out over certain areas that would have given a greater potential for it to have survived major catastrophic events that have occurred, and that will occur in the future.

Um, the problem is, is those that find it, are they willing to share that information? Uh, you know, and my goal, uh, is, is to locate the sites.

And if that data is available to get it and to figure out the best way to bring it out to the public, without it being stopped or taken, or, you know, whatever happens, it's one way that we're going to figure out and hopefully move forward in leaps and bounds.

And one just big move in understanding and a new knowledge at some point. And hopefully it's in the very near future.

And, and again, the new technology available, you know, can see so deep into the ground in a noninvasive manner that it gives you the opportunity to do so much more than without having to, uh, you know, dig or drill.

Um, and yeah, I mean, There's a lot of potential. There's a lot of potential ahead. Yeah, I hear that. Yeah.

And I like to talk about, um, a couple of things. Next one is I would really love to hear you talk about a couple of your personal paranormal experiences.

Um, that would be something to really help the audience go out and like connect with you and where you're coming from and your personal experience.

I know that it's a big part of what motivates you, right? It's not just your long ago, personal experience, but your ongoing experience directly with the paranormal.

Um, but we'll, we'll get to that first. I just want to ask you my last question on this particular topic, um, when it comes to, this is something that really interests me and interest Jenna as well, when it comes to those stories, the oral traditions, the, um, the documentation of ancient life, you know, the things where we're referencing the mythology, the folk lore all along, you know, since those ancient times, it seems like it's been painted for the rest of us as just stories, right?

As, as mythology, something being surely made up for the imagination of human beings and not grounded whatsoever in reality. So what I'd like to ask you is what gives you in your, and your experience with all of the, all of the deep, intense research intensive research that you've done all over the world, because you've traveled all over the world, doing these studies, this is not just in the, you went to base and you're bringing this knowledge home to the Uinta basin and connecting it to what's happening there and having your own experiences.

But what, what makes it legitimate? Like how did you know that these were not just stories that this was not just ancient, human, active imagination, you know, trying to make sense of things because they didn't have enough science at the time.

That's sort of the general understanding, right? But you're saying, and many other people in this field who are at the forefront of this knowledge are saying, no, no, no, these are not made up theater, actual documented depictions of what was going on in the lives, in the experiences of these human beings at this time.

So how do you know that they're legitimate? How can you help the audience understand that? Sure. So, you know, obviously there was a greater diffusion of information.

You can't have the same documentation, the same existence of pictures, of the same type of oral tradition all over the world, unless they really were connected.

Um, you know, so I I've been to locations in Scotland and Ireland, they're all underground. You know, they knew that in order for it to be protected and kept available to put the most important stuff underground or on a medium that would last through almost anything.

And that, that other opportunity would be raw rocks, rock art. Um, so you're seeing the same thing by these ancient people, uh, Regardless of where they're located in the world.

Yeah. No ways of communicating with each other at that time, As we're told, but, you know, we know better than there is no other way that this could have all happened around the same time, by all different cultures and civilizations.

Something occurred that everybody was aware of around the world, whether that was that they were seafaring or other technology that allowed, you know, worldwide connectivity, um, or events in the sky occurring, plasma events, cataclysmic events occurring, the great delusion.

You have this throughout the whole world, how much more evidence do you need then then the same documentation written, carved, painted, spoken through.

You know, they knew that paper paprika, all this stuff dissolves is destroyed time. But if you continue the tradition of telling, you know, from one generation to the next that in some way, shape or form, it would continue on and it's all over there.

There's no way that this diffusion took place. And I don't know how they can continue to teach otherwise in the universities and in the schools with so much evidence.

And you know, on, on top of that, you're getting, uh, this Western culture that's telling you, no, it can't be true.

It's only folklore and mythology, but when you talk to the native Americans, when you talk to other indigenous people throughout the world, it's oral tradition, there's a difference between the theology, folklore and oral, traditional oral tradition, history to these people.

We got to open up our ears and listen to what they've been trying to explain and tell us For hundreds of thousands of thousands of years.

Yeah, Absolutely. Because you know, our history is only several thousand years back in the past where apparently their history is a couple hundred thousand years, if not older.

And We have religions around the world and I'm not going to name them that came across certain historical data. Uh, I always look at the Bible as historical data.

It, I may not necessarily believe in the religion, but the history that was collected is real history. It may have been altered to fit somebody's perspective of what religion is, but there is a religion that's fairly new here in the Americas where an individual came across gold, copper, brass plates created a religion out of it.

Those plates exist. I mean, they've been found throughout Missouri of HIO, New York, upstate New York, where this religion started all the way through, you know, to Utah.

Um, Kansas has, has tons of these plates in the mounds that were left over. Um, it was just a matter of them being incorrectly corporated to fit somebody's need or perspective where that historical data is available.

It's just now being kept or secret at a way for selfish reasons or, or other, you know, religious reasons. And, and, and I get it and I understand that we're all human.

Um, but the data's there, the there's, uh, it just has to be to the public. And again, that's what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to locate this historical data.

That's below our feet underground, uh, at sites that are all over the world. You know, I've spent a lot of time in Mezo America.

I'll be back down in Mexico city area in the end of June and July. And then back in the Yucatan in March of next year, there are certain sites that we know of that are fairly new, that they haven't excavated yet.

I have the technology now to walk across these pyramids that are still covered without the anthropologists that standing next to me, even knowing I'm collecting the data, because these, uh, these 3d ground imaging systems I can wear on my ankle, I have one that actually fits around my ankle and I carry the tablet in my hand and it collects the data.

So I'm going to get a better picture of what's there before they're able to excavate and take that in and hide it away.

Or, you know, maybe they will, they will make it available to the public, but I'm pessimistic and not optimistic about it, getting out to the public.

So if I can do that and we have great people, you know, Dwayne Alinger is the owner of blind frog ranch, and it's in a location that I promise you has a lot of history.

Um, and I can't get into all of it, uh, because I, I don't want to get into it right now, cause I don't want that disappearing, but it has history that hopefully will become available to everybody in the very near future.

I know Duane is working hard on that. He presented with you at the conference where I saw you speak and his presentation was wonderful as well.

Yeah, Sure. So, so it's a matter of, you know, low the location being available to the public, being able to retrieve that data and being able to get it out to the public, without it being taken away and secret in a way.

Um, there's a lot of other things too, uh, in regards to, you know, the Spaniards were here and they collected a lot of information that is still available.

It's just, we don't know where we've lost track of where it's been deposited and it's hard to interpret it because it's in an older Spanish.

So finding, finding it again, it's only a matter of time being able to go into the right archive with the right interpreter that can really understand it and being able to collect it, re-interpret it the right way.

And then present that and then hopefully collect new data points off of that old information and these sites that were intentionally covered up to be preserved.

Um, it's just, you know, we're on the precipice of locating these sites again, uh, not just in Utah, like you said, but in Mexico, uh, there's one, and I'm hesitant to say where in the UK it is.

And then you and I were talking a little bit, uh, before we started, uh, you know, recording that a lot of this information, this ancient information and data is an ancient Armenia, which now takes up, you know, the countries of Turkey as there'd by John Georgia and what little left is of Armenia and a big part of it is tied into the giants to these people of great stature.

You know, th they were the gods to homosapiens at the beginning. People like to throw around the Nephilim and the Anunnaki the Watchers.

And that seems to be all they know. But let me tell you, uh, if you read my books, even though they're, they're fictional a lot of the data's hidden in there in the pictures, especially in the new book, but you have the UN must, the kina met, send giants, the take car, which were the redheaded cannibal giants and the desert Southwest, as far as Tennessee, you have the star, not K, which the Navajo and the Apache say were the mining giants that had tools that made sound.

So what does that tell us? They were vibrational, pneumatic or electrical. You know, they enslaved the indigenous people to work these minds when the Spaniards came to Utah and they started torturing the Shoshone and the Paiute that were in the area, they told them there's no need to dig the new mines.

The mines already exist. You just have to reopen them well, who was mining that? Well, it was the star, not K the C take car.

Um, you know, ancient Armenia was created when two giants fought each other, you had hike and bell and hike killed bell and started what is currently Armenian.

A lot of people don't know that ancient Armenian writing is actually cuneiform. The Sumerians created that cuneiform text to be able to trade with this ancient group of people that lived in and around Mount Aira rat, which later became then, and then later Armenia, you know, the current Armenian wasn't created until they became Christian and sent a scholar down to Greece.

And he kind of copied that Greek writing and created, uh, the current Armenian language. But how do we have all this connectivity?

It's incredible because the giants are in Sardinia, I've shown. I mean, I've proven that they look identical to the giants that were in the UN top basin, the petroglyphs fit, and look just like the artifacts in Sardinia.

I showed that in a lot of my past presentations. Um, so it's a matter of just getting this historical data out to the world and not just being hidden away by a few people that know it, and don't want it out there, whether it be for religion or, you know, the power strip, excuse me, the power structure that's currently in play throughout the world.

Yeah. Yeah. Actually, let's just touch on that very briefly just before we get into your personal experiences. Um, you're, I feel like I, what I hear correct me if I'm wrong, but what I'm hearing is you're talking about this information being covered over in two different ways.

You've been referencing that through our conversation. That's been covered over it's been hidden or obscured. And it seems like there were two purposes for that.

One was that the ancient people, uh, were the ancient beings and, or the people covered it over for protections. I, to make sure that that knowledge would be able to be protected and would survive over eons into the future to help people in the future.

The other one is, uh, the small group of people or small group of yeah. People on earth who are intentionally hiding this stuff intentionally, uh, spreading lies to say that it doesn't exist intentionally covering over this information over many, many, many generations to keep it for themselves.

And the most obvious answer would be, you know, for power and control, right? Because we all know that on this earth, there are people at the very, very high top level of, uh, of humanity in terms of power who are there because they want power and control.

You have to have a certain mindset and a certain mentality, a certain weight being to operate like that at that level.

And it kind of requires wanting to have power and control, but is that the simple answer? Is that it, or do you think there's more going on with why that's been covered up?

It's funny, you know, you're touching upon on, I'm going to be speaking at the, the UFO disclosure symposium at the end of the month, May 27th through 29th.

And I think a lot of people think I'm just going to be talking about a skin Walker, ranch and blind frog ranch.

And my presentation really has very little to do with bull. What it has to do with is this loss of information and why that occurred.

And a lot of this artifacts, uh, I'm going to go into the ancient alien artifacts that are coming out of a way low stay, at least go in Mexico, but you're absolutely right.

So the first part, yeah, I'll give you a great example. Go Beckley tipi, that's ancient Armenia. It just happens to be in current Turkey.

I mean, you know, Turkey took it from the Armenians within the last hundred years, that was ancient Armenia. It was covered up to survive and tell a story in the future.

So that answers your first one. That's an example, at least of what said, and absolutely the second part is, you know, command control and conquer.

Uh, whether that be through religion, uh, through governments, you know, sovereign nations, it doesn't matter because business corporations, globalization, religion, and governments are all interconnected at the highest level right now.

And I just despise talking about that and I leave that alone. That's not my thing. What is my thing is to explain why we've lost this data and it's still out there.

There's some of it out there and it's just covered up, covered up stuff. There's some of it's that that is lost that we have to get out immediately without it being known.

It has to be brought out immediately. Um, whereas, you know, a lot of it's lost because it's in private collections And again, you know, uh, whisky the way for whatever reason, but there's a lot of information below our feet.

It's just a matter of finding it. And in this presentation, it's a brand new presentation that's at the end of the month.

And it's funny that you talk, you asked me that because, uh, I think it's extremely important and it ties into so much more of paranormal, or I prefer to call it high strangeness or atypical because I think the word paranormal is just kind of been beaten and raped through the coals, you know, and I don't run around a haunted house, you know, all this technology screening out numbers that make no sense to anyone.

So in this presentation, I'm going to explain the technology, what, it's, what it's for, what it collects, why I'm collecting it and where this lost information could be and the potential of recovery and what it's possibly going to show.

And then I want to show the fakes that are out there, how to spot. What's not real. And I Love that And what is real.

And I love that. Oh yeah, because again, you know, the, the information, a lot of information has been misinterpreted, or it comes down to money and power read, you know, you, you have a drug cartels creating these a weightless day, at least SCO artifacts because it's a lucrative business now.

And so many people are, you know, juked out of their, their hard-earned money for no reason, but there are real artifacts that have ancient writing that has information.

And it's just a matter of decoding it by going back into the, the data that we have and interpreting it correctly.

I love that. And I really love that. You're emphasizing, you know, it's very important for us to be discerning and to use facts and, you know, critical thinking about the dollar basically to make sure that whatever information we're taking in is actually information and it's not made up or fabricated in some way, because there's an awful lot of that out in general right now, right.

It's very difficult to tell right now, what is real and what isn't. And so, you know, but the onus is I'm feel on the average individual to take on more responsibility in our own lives to become more empowered as citizens of this world that we are participating in without just kind of being led by the nose, you know, by the usual power systems.

And so, right. You're kind of touching on one of them with the cartel mentioned, which is consumerism, right? If we're, we're kept in a place of theater and uncertainty, we buy buy, buy, because that's what makes us feel better.

It makes us feel more secure. So there's absolutely, you know, once you really started looking into this stuff, you can see that there is evidence that they're emphasizing.

And I love that you're emphasizing that there is actual evidence. There is actual information out there to help us understand that this stuff is real and it's not, woo.

It's not fiction. It's not mythology. It is real stuff that is important for us to know for our own beingness, right, for our own evolution as human beings, we have to understand where we came from and where we're going.

So I want to bring it back to the sort of individual, uh, person and bring it to you. So we were going to talk about some personal experiences that you've had, and you are definitely somebody who's taken on the responsibility, but you're owning these things that are happening to you and your life.

You're owning your curiosity. And you seem to have that sense of responsibility and wanting to be of service, right. To given to humans right now and to our world right now.

So I can hear the passion in your voice as you're talking about all of these things. And that's one of the reasons I wanted to have you here, because I know how, how deeply you feel this is important.

So on a personal level, how important is this to you in your own life, as you James, with the experiences that you have yourself, how have all these things impacted you and your life and how you think and how you feel about life?

Yeah, one w 100%, you know, like I said, I come from a law enforcement, private investigation background where 90% of interaction was negative.

And, uh, you know, it gets to you after a while. Um, and I knew there was just so much more out there, uh, you know, going through, uh, school.

Um, it used to drive me crazy that if I brought anything up to the professors, um, you're shot down immediately.

You know, that it's just a stupid thought. It's done. Those are people that don't understand the science behind it. And I just, that just infuriated me even more that they weren't willing to, you know, consider anything else other than what their professor taught them that was taught by a professor that taught them.

And it's the same thing since the 18th and 19th century. And for me, I know that there up there, uh, I know that it's based upon matter and energy.

Everything is positive and negative. Uh, in the last few years, I see everything as positive and negative. That's, that's the world around us it's matter and energy, uh, whether you consider that good or bad or, or, you know, angelic and evil, um, It's one or the other.

Uh, so why not try to live in the positives, but you absolutely need the negative for positive to exist. So that's where I'm at right now.

Um, in order to be that way, uh, I had to, like I said, get out of what I was doing, uh, because, you know, when you, you live in that underbelly of the world, it, it eats a part of you away, but I want to change that.

And, uh, I felt that if I could write, uh, and author, what I felt was most important in this world, and I didn't want to do it in non-fiction because for me, the two reasons, one is sometimes it just gets boring, you know, reading the knot.

And I, I like reading about things. That's the only way you're going to become more knowledgeable about things, but you get to understand more of an individual or a society in the fiction, because there's always going to be reality.

You know, everything fictional is based in reality. My very first book was dark shadows and catastrophe, and 40 50% of it is my life.

I just, if I wrote nonfiction, I would have been fired the next day, you know? Um, but what way to get that out?

And I talked about the experiences that occurred in things that happen and add to it. What I think are where I think things need to go, or what's going to occur.

And yeah, I'm absolutely passionate about it because the science is gonna lead to a greater understanding of what we don't understand.

Um, and some people will go, oh, you're just throwing around a bunch of words. So what I mean is what's paranormal today is going to be normal tomorrow.

It's going to be science, science. So I always want to make sure I have those data points collected for those people that just refuse to believe anything else or won't.

Um, there's going to be a paradigm shift to where the two come together because it's always been together. And, you know, I had one great experience.

I, from all the data I collected from the speaking to people up on the basin, I found a location in, in Europe, the presentation where I talked about the UAP, uh, that I came into contact with.

Um, I learned that it operated and sent out a certain frequency at three gigahertz. Uh, I've recently come to find out that, um, our government was already aware of that exact, uh, three gigahertz from UAP, uh, the color that it was at, I use technology.

I use that I had used as a police officer. I used a radar gun that you please, you know, catch you speeding with a K a a and the, I Tripoli, it's a K a band radar gun, which operates at 34.7 gigahertz.

Um, I used a laser gun. It didn't interact at all with the, the UAP. I use this microwave range and it freaked out was trying, it was evasive, trying to get away from the radiation that was coming out of the gun, uh, told me two things.

Uh, it wasn't just light. It had a surface because it bounced back a reading of anywhere between 11 and 44 miles per hour, as it was trying to evade the 34.7 gigahertz.

The spectrum analyzer that I had was collecting that this thing was operating at 2.9 to 3.1 gigahertz. So it fit in that three gigahertz range at what ever, you know, it's obviously AI, it there's intelligence behind it because of the way it's maneuvering and operating.

And I'm collecting all this amazing data that provides the science with the better understanding or the belief that there's more out there than what we currently know.

So, yeah, I mean, that's where I'm at. Uh, that was last, uh, summer who knows what we're going to find, you know, coming up next month when we're out there on the base and then in Mexico in, uh, the end of June and July, Oh, please, you know, come back and tell us, because we want to hear, we want to hear it.

And if, if we can draw on that and UAP experience, you had a little more, can you describe what that was like for you?

Like, what did it look like? Where did it come from? Where were you, you know, what was the context when you experienced this?

Can you tell our audience about that? Yeah, sure. So, uh, it was an, or I would say maybe the size of the basketball.

Um, it just appeared out of nowhere. So we, we were in a location that we knew the same type of phenomenon had occurred before.

Uh, it wasn't taught a first try. This was multiple attempts. Finally. Uh, we came into contact with it. Um, it went from an orange color to a white, and at the end, it was this brilliant blue plasma before it just imploded on itself and was gone.

But for the 92 seconds that we interacted with it, um, it continued to maneuver in an attempt to get away from the K band gun that we were radar gun that we were using, uh, which gave me a wealth of information, you know, that, uh, what its capabilities were.

Yeah. It was behaving in a conscious way, a reactive way. Absolutely. Um, so, you know, that's one of the 10 things is to go back to this site and see, uh, if we're able to collect any more data from the RFE F Ray and meth, uh, spectrum.

Okay. And when you say we, who is we, by the way, who were you working with? So I can't tell you that there there's a few of us, uh, And you say what the, what they job titles are, or, you know, the skill sets of these people.

Sure. One of those individuals worked for bass Bigelow, aerospace, uh, advanced space studies, um, for Robert Bigelow on skin Walker, ranch for years.

He's a great friend of mine. Um, if those credentials don't tell you what he's seen and experienced, I don't know what else you know, or who else has.

Um, the other individual, I can't really tell you a whole lot about yet, But, uh, we were up last summer, uh, on blind frog ranch around that general area.

This is where that occurred. Uh, we were south, uh, skin Walker, ranch. Um, I don't know if you got to see Ryan Burns, uh, he gave his presentation at the conference that I met you at.

Uh, he owns the space spacewalk research, which is adjacent to the south fence of skin Walker ranch. He's a fantastic individual that has been looking into the strange phenomena, not just there, but in Nevada for probably two decades.

And he's just a good friend. He he's always willing to allow people to, uh, research and investigate. Um, and one of those probably the most important data point when I talked about, uh, those magnetic anomalies was on his property three and a half feet away from skin Walker ranch, and remember phenomenon, doesn't stick to human boundaries.

You know, it just so happens that this is a focal point of some of the phenomenon occurring that skin Walker ranch happens to be a part of, uh, the Mesa directly north of skin Walker, ranches, probably more important than the ranch itself.

And I won't get into that just based upon data that we're still going through and interpreting and have to go back and verify.

Wow, that's exciting. Oh, absolutely. But yeah, I mean, uh, there, there's so many people, you know, so if you're able to openly transfer this information without trying to hoard it and keep it covered up, there's so much more that can come out of it.

And, uh, you know, instead of having to reinvent the wheel every time somebody can take the data that we present or show and run with that, and maybe go even further than where we've been, and they maybe find something that we've overlooked or missed, or that didn't occur while we were there.

Um, you know, and, and I love to interview people because those that live there have so many stories to tell, because there's so much that happens and you couldn't imagine how much important information comes from something that you think, or they may think isn't important.

That is absolutely important. Or, you know, what I do is when I'm at the, uh, at the conferences at phenomic con, especially last September, because that was in Vernal, people, dismiss people coming up to them and they, they, they don't listen to them or whatever.

I promise you, please come talk to me, tell me your stories, tell me, you know, what's happened to you because what you may think isn't important, maybe what I've been waiting for, or trying to figure out where I need to go or what I need to do or what I can do better or what I've done wrong.

I'm the first to tell you I've done a lot wrong. My hypothesis has changed a lot from 10 years ago to five years ago to last year to what are, you know, it's developing what our plans will be in the next coming three.

So, um, everybody's information is important. Don't think it's not. Thank you. Thank you, James, for saying that. Thank you very much because I firmly firmly support that perspective.

I don't feel, and Jenna feels the same way. We don't feel like if all the names, you know, who know what's going on and no one else does that names will say, they don't even know what's going on, right?

This is, this is a mystery that we're trying to on to solve, to uncover, to understand in our lifetime. So I fully support and agree with you in the fact that, you know, the average person on the ground has value with their story 100%, You know, and that community is incredibly important.

And this is why it's so important to create these gathering places online, like star family wisdom, like what you're doing and all the talks and conferences that you go to, right?

That you, when you're delivering these information, you're creating community, we're all coming together to, to share and to validate and to, you know, to hear each other out because this stuff is happening on the ground level.

I personally feel like there's more knowledge and there's more information on the ground level than what is being held at the highest levels, uh, in a way, you know, not the big stories and the big stuff.

Obviously that's kind of under wraps, but there's so much value that comes from just tracking what is happening to people all over the world with this rising level of, uh, I'm, wouldn't use paranormal, even though you don't like it, you know, paranormal activity that's going on because it does seem like they, whoever they are, these other beings or consciousnesses that are around us are making their presence known more and more and more.

That certainly seems to be happening with UAPs. UFO's formerly known as now, U UAPs, uh, and, and extraterrestrials that they're showing up, you know, more and more obviously to people all over the world.

So do you have any other personal experiences that you'd like to share with our audience that helped them understand more where we're coming from?

Because I know this or occurred, and by the way, it's fascinating. That's blue because I just want to mention for the audience that one of the curiosities of blind fog ranch is all the blue that has come up on blind frog ranch, right?

There's blue color in the soil and all this stuff that just should not be there. And blue is a sort of across the board, significant color for this field.

But do you have any other experiences that you'd like to share? Because I feel like again, you know, these personal experiences and a personal story to kind of where it's at, right?

So I'd love to hear more, You know, there's something and I might be releasing it soon, but I just, unfortunately I can't discuss it right now because I just want to research it a little bit more.

Um, Again, it occurred three miles Northeast of skin Walker ranch, and I haven't had an opportunity to go back to the area.

Uh, I will tell you that I've now interviewed five people from that area that have seen things running around or in the sky that were, uh, fauna, uh, you know, creatures that existed anywhere between 8,000 and several million years ago in these exact same area.

And what's interesting is you're talking about dinosaur national monument. Vernal is dinosaur land, a bottle hollow reservoir has a dark massive serpent that has supposedly causes drownings, uh, that could easily be connected to the underground system, which has water.

It would be blind and dark because it doesn't require light down there. There's all these tie-ins to, uh, the high strangeness.

Um, but yeah, so I, I had one other really amazing experience and maybe next time, uh, but I really, I want to follow up.

Yeah. I want to follow up on the area, uh, prior to discussing that I'm going to leave that there. And like I said, the UAP was just, uh, incredible.

Um, I did have an interesting, I was at an abandoned NASA site, which is 16 miles east of skin Walker ranch.

Uh, we had just, uh, hit the area with GPR. There was, uh, cavities underground and large metal objects, which I believe were seismic detectors from, uh, when it used to be U S G S the us geological survey location.

And that gets into a whole nother thing about this massive underground array that I don't think was pulled out in the 1960s.

But anyway, the story going into it is I was on the phone with, uh, another investigator researcher, Ryan Stenner, um, from that location, when a black Hawk helicopter with, uh, what looked to be two, uh, military personnel came up, uh, from, uh, the canyon below up, and we're just hovering there.

And I was on the phone with him while this was taking place. I was like, Hey man, if I go missing, you tell them where I was, what I'm seeing.

And he stayed on the phone with me until they went away, but they just stayed there, hovering for probably a good three minutes.

So I found that interesting. That was the first time that I had ever been out to that NASA site. So kind a random helicopter Areas of interest to a, to a lot of people, uh, you know, private or other.

Yeah. And I know you're working with some, uh, military or former military people who would also be able to recognize that these things are not exactly normal, right?

Yeah. I love the inner mystery James or, you know, Of Course, of course, but, you know, it's, it's, uh, you're bringing integrity right.

To, to your work. And so I fully understand why you don't want to talk about things that you're not ready to talk about before you feel like you've thoroughly investigated them.

And I appreciate that a lot. You know, I, I would take that anytime over information that's loosely given. So thank you for being honest about that.

So let's go to what you are working on now and where you're going next, because I know you're a constantly curious person who wants to keep pushing the boundaries of what you're doing and discovering new things.

So you've got something exciting that you've been working on, and we were chatting about it just before we started recording.

Can you tell our audience what they had to look forward to with your work? Yeah, absolutely. So, uh, I have gotten three pieces of new equipment.

One is a dipole GPR system that can penetrate the ground in multiple frequencies, which means, uh, go down certain depths at certain, uh, resolution, uh, two down to 80 feet, which is unheard of.

Uh, what we're used to seeing on TV is about eight to 10 feet. Uh, also I have a new, uh, metal detection unit that can go down to 26 feet where the average is 10 to 12 inches.

Oh my gosh. Yeah. And a new 3d ground imaging system, which is capable of penetrating 40 meters into the ground, which is 131 feet.

So imagine what we're going to be able to show the public because you were there. When I presented some of that 3d imaging, I wanted people to see what it looked like and it's intense, but what you're capable of doing, it's incredible.

Um, and, and what's this going to do well when we find these sites that I'm 95% no exist. I'm 95% certain I know exists, excuse me, uh, provide that data actual data points.

And so we're going to be, uh, in June coming up up in the UN top base, and then you went on mountains at multiple sites that one of them just should naturally exist.

Uh it's N it doesn't look like anything else within hundreds of miles. So what it's doing there matches oral tradition of, uh, of the ancient, uh, desert, archaic people.

Um, and it's highly ties into people of great stature or large stature, and I'll leave it at that, on that part.

But so we're going to be on the base in where we'll, uh, be at certain ranches, uh, collecting more data, um, interviewing and talking to some more people that, uh, we just didn't have time to chat with last summer or when I was there September.

And I'm going to be going to Mexico, uh, at the end of June and July to certain sites that unfortunately I've had very few people talk about it or discuss it.

And you're talking about ancient ancient history. That goes way back probably to prodo old neck time before the old neck, which current anthropologists and archeologists believe as the oldest culture civilization from Mesoamerica, which just isn't true.

We have this well-known protocol, all mech cultures that were probably seafaring or other, whether that be Ariel, that their capabilities were, uh, that we'll be looking into those sites.

Um, in some of them are actually in Mexico city in some really nice videos. Uh, just, you know, nobody's looked any deeper into the ground because it would've required back then to dig or to drill.

And we don't have to do that anymore. Um, and then I'll be going to other locations in Mexico between July and March of 2023.

Um, we're gonna look into the way low stay at disco artifacts, which are the ancient alien artifacts that, uh, have been coming up, um, 99.9, nine, 9% of them are, are currently made.

They're recent makes, but there are four of those artifacts that have me perplexed. I'm not sure how they exist. So, uh, I I'm really interested when I'm stumped at how something like that is possible.

Wow. They're shot. Oh yeah. So those are, uh, that's what we currently have. Um, I'm going to be speaking at the contact 2020 to Sedona, uh, on the 21st of this month, uh, from 10 to noon.

And that's going to be, uh, completely about skin Walker ranch. So I'll give a lot of detailed information about that.

And then we, you know, I talked about the UFO disclosure symposium, the 27th through the 29th where I'm going to give, I don't think they even know what's coming because they probably think it's going to mostly be on, on the base and it's not, I'm going farther out.

And then, um, when all this craziness subsides, I have to get to, uh, Armenia to the old sites out there and, uh, to east Turkey, I was wondering if you were going to focus on Turkey, cause I know there's been some stuff arising in Turkey.

That's very interesting over the past couple of years, especially, am I right about that? Oh, look, go, Beckley TAPI has taken us 15, 20,000 years back that the anthropologists and archeologists are willing to accept that date now, uh, I still think, uh, uh, locations in Bolivia, Peru, or even older, uh, and I'll hold off on that too until, uh, all this craziness when the craziness subsides, cause it's, it's really difficult right now to get in and do what you really need to do.

Uh, got it. Do you mean, uh, under pandemic conditions? Is that right? Got it, got it, got it. Yes. Yeah.

Traveling is definitely different for that reason. For sure. So, um, so you, weren't going to be doing some talk to all their, all their details that you just mentioned.

And the events you just mentioned are in may of this year, is that correct? Yeah. Uh, uh, May 21st will be on skin Walker ranch.

I speak on the 29th at the disclosure disposing in Vernal, Utah metal. That's going to cover the technology and the material that's been hidden away or still needs to be collected.

And then, uh, the second phenomenon is going to be September 8th through the 11th. I'll be speaking there again. And I'm going to be discussing all the new research and data that we're collecting this summer, Which I promise you if what the initial data showed from July of last year.

Uh, oh my gosh, it's going to be amazing. What's underground. So I honestly hope that comes to fruition and it's what we, we think it is.

I love that. I love your excitement and your passion and enthusiasm about it. It really does come across and it gives us a lot to look forward to in terms of this is very juicy information, however, you know, and I agree with you.

It's incredibly important for us to understand our human origins. So let me end today because we're wrapping up right now.

Um, let me today by asking you, why do you think that is it's important for us to have this information?

How would it change our lives, our world? You know, what is the reason if you were going to boil it down to one?

Um, just because we're almost at the end here, what would you say is the main priority for us understanding this information?

What's it going to do for us? Yeah. W it's going to move us forward. We've been stuck in this rut for hundreds of years.

Um, and the powers that be don't want us to leave that. So something incredible has to occur, uh, all at once to where it can't be stopped.

Um, and that data's got to be made public for people's eyes to open up and see that we're not the only, um, intelligent life that's been just here on the planet.

You know, I don't go into aliens or extra terrestrials a whole lot because I think what was here, we haven't even touched upon or who was here, who is still here, or what is still here and guess where they are, if they truly still exist, they're underground, they're inside just elsewhere where, uh, we have to come into contact with those individuals again.

Or, you know, we, we were talking about, uh, this layers or this inner dimensionality. And that's the other possibility too, is we don't have to look too far.

It's already here around us. We just have to figure out how to see it and interact with it properly. Yeah.

Wonderful, wonderful. I mean, you're making me think of Sasquatch, for example, Sasquatch, uh, you know, as an inner earth being apparently who was unpick already universe and they can, they can disappear or appear at will.

So yes, there's lots of incredible stuff to look forward to. And James, I love how you just talked about that actually, because of the metaphor of, uh, you know, how as humans, we are so trained to look at words and to be outwardly stimulated, right?

Like consumers and television, media jobs, whatever, all this stuff that is outside of us distracts us from ourselves. And so the fact that you're saying I'm not really tracking ETFs, I'm tracking which right here at home, it reminds me of the importance for each individual person of focusing on what's happening inside us and not being so distracted by what's happening around us so that we're disconnected from ourselves and what we can know.

So on that note, thank you so much for being with us today, James, it was a wonderful conversation. You bring such a grounded approach and I love how you blend the so-called paranormal with the factual, the research and the evidence, the science, because that really is where we are at now.

We're living in such an exciting time where the so-called woo and the so-called real are coming together and intersecting in ways that are validating information in such an exciting new way.

So I I'm like you, I hope that we can catch up and we can use this new, real information to help ourselves abreast.

And I really appreciate that you brought this conversation to our audience because it's, it is so important to us to think about.

So thank you James, for being here and you're welcome back anytime. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me Anytime. Anytime we'll have you again.

So thanks everyone for listening. I'm going to sign off. We will see you on the other side next time in our next episode,