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Star Family Wisdom is a paradigm shifting podcast, community and online school for your Spiritual and Cosmic evolution! Hosted by Jenna Layden and Sinéad Whelehan, on the Star Family Wisdom podcast we share conversations, ideas and information that will inspire you, and support you on this wild journey of being human. Explore ancient clues about our untold human story, real life supernatural experiences, lost knowledge from the stars, and spiritual wisdom that empowers you to transform your life, for the better.
EPISODE 17 TRANSCRIPT
Jenna: Hello everyone. Welcome to the Star Family Wisdom Podcast. I’m Jenna Layden, founder of Star Family Wisdom and former global Vice President for Whole Foods Market. Thanks for being with us today.
Sinéad: Hi everyone. I'm Sinéad Whelehan, former special needs educator and co-host of the Star Family Wisdom Podcast, which is a paradigm shifting podcast, a community, and an online school for your spiritual and cosmic evolution. If you're watching on YouTube, don't forget to like, subscribe, share with your friends - and you can find our podcast on your favorite podcast app. Leave us a review and a comment, we always want to know what's resonating with you and what you'd like to hear more of. And we'd love to connect with you.
Jenna: Yeah, it's been so great hearing all of your comments so far, and then making the connection with you guys out there. Sinead and I met last year and realized that the journey and experiences that have led us here were very similar because five years ago, each of us had experiences that changed our lives forever. And we both went on our journey of healing and exploration and research, and quickly realized that our reality is so much more expansive than we ever believed. And so after we became friends, we started having long conversations about our journey and about our experiences about the expansion of consciousness, about our multidimensional reality, about extraterrestrials. And we wanted to share these conversations with you.
Sinéad: Yes, all the things, because we know that we're not alone on this planet or in this universe, and that it's time for everybody to know that. So on this podcast, we intend to share expansive conversations, ideas, and information that are going to inspire you and also support you on this crazy journey of being a human being. Human-ing is pretty hard. We're going to explore ancient clues about our untold human story and real life, real life supernatural experiences, lost knowledge from the stars and spiritual wisdom that empowers you to transform your life for the better.
Jenna: And here at Star Family Wisdom we are experiencers of supernatural phenomena and ET contact. So it's important to us that we have open, mature and fun conversations about what is possible, how we are evolving and what comes next.
Sinéad: Yeah. So for us, we love all things woo, magic mindset, science, spirituality, health, and wellness - and of course extraterrestrial and cosmic! And through these conversations, we want to explore how all of these topics connect to inform the evolution of our human experience.
Jenna: And ultimately we want everyone to be able to embrace our very expansive multi-dimensional reality without fear - and things will get a little far out sometimes, but we'll ground you in the science, research and information that we use to expand our minds and open to the incredible nature of our reality.
Sinéad: Yes. So together we remember and discover again, our place among the stars. Um, and today we have a guest with us who really did give us that cosmic, uh, expanded viewpoint on what it's like to be a human being. We were speaking with the wonderful Tara McCallam who is personally a good friend of mine, but also somebody that I really admire in the field of progressive wellness inherently. She does something that she's originated, something called the Muse Method, and she uses it with her clients. It's essentially intuitive body healing, a hands-on form of healing, but it is involving, um, a very expanded understanding of what human nature is and what we're possible, you know, what's possible for us, what we're, what we're able to do, what the potentials are that we have within ourselves. So she brings healing to another level. She uses a very different approach. It is not like therapy where you're focusing on problems and challenges. She focuses on, instead, on the expansiveness that exists within challenges, within struggles, within stresses that we have and how they, how we can use them to transform ourselves into more powerful human beings.
Jenna: Yeah. It was such a fun conversation. It was my first time to meet Tara, and I'd heard a lot about her from Sinéad and Sinéad’s experience working with her. So I was really excited to learn about the muse method and how she has just kind of intuitively figured that out for herself because she's gone through like so many people, various traumas in her life and, and found these, you know, moments of Spirit waking her up, you know, giving her like that, wake up call - and giving her this, this intuitive kind of guidance, you know, that she started to follow. And, and, and I love just where that's led to this place of a really holistic understanding of the human experience and the wholeness that, um, is there when we look at both, you know, the shadow and the light, and we work to integrate that into our experience. And, and so I love that she brought that to the conversation today that it, you know, is not about denying parts of ourselves or, or to your point, Sinéad, you know, in therapy, really just focusing on the problems.
But, um, but then working to bring new life, you know, into your human experience.
Sinéad: Yeah. She really does an amazing job of that. I mean, I've had sessions with her, because that's how I first met her, when I was the client. So I've had, I had 10 sessions with her a couple of years ago and it was just mind-blowing. I mean, she's unbelievably intuitive. She's so good at helping you reframe your perspective in surprising ways. I mean, I feel like, you know, as adults, we often say that not a lot surprises us anymore. There's not a lot that's surprising or unexpected - could be shocking, but maybe not surprising. And she just continuously surprised me by changing my mind, you know, helping me change my mind, my perspective, my outlook about things. So she really does an amazing job of, um, kind of utilizing language in a very specific way, and also helping us shift perspective. It's kind of like, you know, we are used to seeing, we're used to looking at a window that has half of it covered with a curtain and we just think the curtain always has to be there. And Tara says, um, no, you can just move the curtain out of the way and see the view of the whole window. You know, it's a lot easier than we think that it is - not that life still isn't challenging. It definitely is. But Tara talks about how there's power and opportunity in the things that we are trained to see as being difficult and undesirable and, you know, things that we're not supposed to have either in ourselves or in the world - we're not supposed to be angry, we're not supposed to have a hard time. We're supposed to be, you know, we're doing everything right. I'm doing my best as a human being, how come things aren't lining up for me, this isn't acceptable. Right. So rather than having that kind of attitude or mindset more, just welcoming in everything that comes in, um, not necessarily that attitude of yay, this is great, but an attitude of, okay, what is this going to teach me?
What can I get out of this experience? Even if it's really hard.
Jenna: Right, right. Yeah. I loved the, the part of the conversation where she talked about that, um, you know, kind of sense of like allowing anger, you know, like you, you need to allow anger, you need to allow space, you know, for these emotions and things that we feel deeply to arise within us. Right. Because when we don't do that, that creates all sorts of other problems. And so, so I love how she, she really invites that, you know, invites that experience, which is uncomfortable for us. You know, I think it, especially in my journey early on as I was, you know, starting on the healing path, allowing those emotions to come up, that I had been denying was really uncomfortable. Right. Cause we, you know, we don't really get taught that that's okay or we, we don't have people around us that are comfortable holding space for that. And, and that's huge, you know, that, that we, we end up in these relational situations where we're saying, you know, I don't want to see that anger. I don't want to see, you know, the tears. I, I just want you to be happy. You know, you just need to be happy over there.
Right. That's not a realistic way for us to operate, you know, and like this type of partnership and a romantic partnership and, you know, a family, you know, situation, you know, we have to be able to hold space for each other. We have to be able to understand, like when those emotions are arising and what, what, they're there to show us, yeah, in that moment and support each other, really support each other, regardless of what kind of relationship we're in.
Sinéad: And she, she, she talks about how, you know, and you know, this is one of my favorite topics - that you have to do the hard work within yourself first. And so if you're not able to get to a place of being kinder to yourself, like allowing yourself to expand, allowing all the uncomfortable so-called undesirable parts of yourself to be there without judgment, right, without saying “I'm bad because I feel this” or “I'm bad because I did this”, then we're able to choose other people in our lives who also are able to be there for us in that way. And she talks about her boyfriend, Joe, she's been with him for five years and they're so in love with each other. And, and you know, it's not that idealistic flowy kind of love. It really is a very grounded love where they recognize the flaws that each of them have. And Tara talks about how Joe just lets her be her full self, that he doesn't like it when she cries, because she's upset, but he understands that she's able to be like that with him because he's allowed her to be that way with him. He's given her the space to be that way.
Jenna: Yeah. Yeah. And what a healthy approach. Right. It's like, I think so many of us go through very unhealthy relationships where, you know, that is not allowed at all or it's, you know, very combative or, you know, something worse. And, and, and that is, you know, an approach that can be invited in when we're ready, you know, for that, when we're ready for that type of, you know, relationship, whether it's romantic or, or otherwise, you know, you talked about the like contraction that happens, you know, when we go into that place of judgment or we go into that place of, of fear or worry around things in our life, right. She, I loved how she talks about, you know, this idea that we always feel like we need to have the answers, right. And, and that comes from a place of worry and doubt and fear sometimes. And that contracts us and prevents us from, you know, expanding into what's available. Right. And, and calling in what's available to us. And so, you know, she walked us through a really great exercise at the end of the episode. So walked all the way through, because at the end of that episode, she walks us through, you know, a three step process that helps you when you encounter that moment of intense contraction.
Sinéad: Yeah. And I love that she also dives into a couple of her own, really difficult experiences that she had. Like she had a really terrible divorce. Um, but she's still on good terms, she managed to create good terms with her ex-husband um, and then also she talked about, um, this illness that she got, which ironically was called H.E.L.P., but she took as the Universe saying to her, you know, you really need to address the ways in which you're neglecting yourself. So she, she helps to ground us in these, um, things that she's talking about by giving us relatable, real life experiences as well. And I just love that she has so much to offer. We're going to have her back for another one. Like, we say this about almost all of our guests, because they're so fabulous, but honestly, I'm so inspired by everybody we’ve brought on, we bring on and Tara is really something, it was one of my favorite conversations by far with her today.
Jenna: And I, you know, so it was so impactful for me having - you know, and I'm sure for you as well - having left, you know, a structured kind of corporate, or at least for me, corporate world job. And, um, and, and, you know, in that setting, you know, in our previous jobs, there's a lot of that, just go, go, go and, you know, operate at your full capacity at all, costs, not tuning into yourself, you know, not showing up, you know, as vulnerably as you can, you know, with others because you're in this place of just achieving and accomplishing and, and, and her journey, you know, realizing, you know, having this wake up, call that, you know, she hadn't been listening to her body. She really hadn't been, you know, allowing herself to operate in a way that was actually really healthy for her is such a huge lesson I think so many people are going through right now. And, you know, I think even the pandemic, you know, kind of helped that shift for so many people that we started to realize, what have we been doing? You know, why have we been operating in these really unhealthy ways? And so I think her story around her journey, you know, with that is going to be so impactful for people who are, you know, maybe still in that place.
Sinéad: I think so, too. Yeah. And I love that she really comes through with this attitude of, you know, each person's path is different, each person's, um, experience of wholeness or healing is different, health is different. You know, it's all about listening to ourselves and not being so focused on the external stimuli and the external rules that tell us how we're supposed to be.
Jenna: Yeah. Yeah. Because we have a lot of intelligence within ourselves and, and within the universe that we can tap into, right. We, and we don't get taught that from the beginning. We don't get taught to listen to our own intuitive insights and to trust that and to trust the universe.
Sinéad: Yes. Yeah. She, she mentioned that. I mean, she talked about how, when she's doing a session with a client, there are three entities involved - herself, the client and the universe. And she also mentioned, she didn't say that, you know, she didn't say this in that phrase at that time that she was speaking during the interview, but with me, she said that, you know, there's, there's ourselves, and then there's our Muse. And our Muse is our true self, our true, powerful self that we really are, our natural state, which is automatically connected to the universe. So it's almost like there's five entities involved, right. There's her, her muse, her client, their muse, and then the universe - and ETs and all aspects are interconnected. It's a really beautiful way of working. I love how she explained it.
Jenna: Yeah. I'm looking at that too, and just such a good reminder, right. That we're not alone in this journey, right. That, you know, sometimes it feels like we are in control and alone in our human body, but there's all this support around us that we can tap into, you know, all this intelligence around us that we can tap into, if we're willing to ask for it, If we're willing to ask for it.
Sinéad: Exactly. And if we're willing to know that and understand that it's unseen, you know, it may not be a book you can get out from the library that's, self-help, it may not be like a physical therapist office that you go to, but it is just as real and just as valuable and coming onto the spiritual path starts to help us understand where those opportunities lie. So Tara is somebody who really integrates that. I love that so much. And maybe this is a good point where we can just jump into the conversation with her.
What do you say?
Jenna: Yeah, let's do it. So check out her information in the show notes, we got links to access her, um, sessions and how to contact her. We talk about her art in the show. It's so beautiful. So check that out, and don't forget to like, and subscribe, rate, review, comment, and let us know what you're thinking about the episodes and what you want to hear more of. And we'll, we'll see, on the other side!
Sinéad: We'll see you on the other side. Bye for now.
Sinéad: Hello. Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the Star Family Wisdom Podcast. I am here with my lovely cohost, Jenna Layden. Jenna, how are you today?
Jenna: Well, hi everyone. It's so great to be here with the wonderful Tara McCallam.
Sinéad: We’ve very much been looking forward to this conversation. Tara is a truly unique soul in the world. And, uh, I'm not just saying that because I'm slightly biased - she's somebody I know in my personal life - she really is wonderful. And she's an artist, she's a business owner, and she's a wholeness coach. So Tara, we've been so excited about talking to you and thank you for being with us here today.
Tara: Thank you too. I just love what you both are doing for the world and what it's going to help people to connect to. So I'm excited to be part of it.
Jenna: Uh, thanks, Tara. It's so good to meet, it's so good to meet you finally, I've heard so much about you from Sinéad and I know you two have, uh, some past connection. And so we'll talk about that, but I've just heard some, so many beautiful things about you and the work that you do and how you support women, especially. And we're just excited to talk about that today.
Sinéad: So Tara and I - Tara, I just want to give a little bit of an introduction to the audience as to my connection with you. I just referenced that I started off as a client of yours, and then we ended up kind of recognizing each other and feeling this familiarity and this real connection and ended up becoming dear friends. But Tara also has a lot to offer. And so I really want to get into that today and share you with our audience because you have so much that you're doing that is bringing real value, like real concrete value and change and transition and transformation to people. So maybe we can start with this incredible painting you have in your background. You are also an artist, and your paintings are just incredible. And I thought that that might be a good way to start with your origin story. You know, how did you end up here on this path doing this kind of work, having left your former career and becoming completely independent. Do you want to start with the spirit of that painting and how you ended up here with us today?
Tara: So the painting is called Emerge and it really was probably a six month process. Um, at the time I had just gone through a divorce of my 14 year marriage. Um, I, I did go out of it, kicking and screaming. I'm not gonna share the reasons why we got divorced, cause I don't really want to attribute any blame. It's just really the course of, um, what the universe needed, both of us to go on. We had gone to see counselors and so on. Um, but the counselors weren't helping me. I found that like, we were just circling the pain, circling the pain, whether we were together or apart, and it wasn't creating any movement forward. And so I literally came to the canvas as a therapist. Now my background is I went to school for art. Art was my thing all the way through childhood. Um, but I had to become an artist that replicated what I saw. I wasn't really like, like I wanted to do it right. Instead of expressing myself in art and during my marriage, I had let go of art for about 10 years. Um, and so here this canvas and, um, like if you remove the image of the woman, it's not real exciting, like down here, there's like, you can kindly see like reds and blues and like this taupe-y color. So that's where the therapy started. I was, I just literally went to the canvas and like, threw down colors and it was all about emotions, like the emotion of pain and anger and anguish and, you know, just feeling steeped in that. And then this long period of time where I was numb, like there was just nothing, I didn't exist. And then it was like Spirit said to me, like, but there's this movement that you're moving into, into this golden space. And also the space of like openness, so that all that went on the canvas. And I thought, well, this is kind of ugly, right? Like cool that I'm using it for therapy. And the canvas literally would talk to me. And it was a really powerful experience for my, moving out of this pain and into like, really finding myself. Um, and then as I left the canvas alone, like in a corner, um, this image of a woman came up like with her chest bursting forth with this energy.
And so I had to figure out like, okay, like how does this look? And I literally had my - I think he was like five at the time - my five-year-old take pictures of me in like, different positions, um, in order to like, get something on here and a little bit of the background paint changed. But again, the canvas spoke to me like this is where you're, you're moving to all of what is below. Doesn't get covered up. It moves up in, through you so that you can burst forth in your radiance, right. So that you can connect to what is outside of you as well. And not only that, but like that place of numbness was a space that like, held me from behind. And so it just helped me to, you know, take the wholeness of my life and embrace it and to be able to move forward with it. So that was for me, um, at the time I was working a job, um, and you know, trying to find myself and really pulling, like I wanted nothing to do with working for myself as a business owner, I felt it would be really irresponsible as a divorced mom with two young kids. Like, how do you do that? Like that, that's not very wise and anybody who said how to do it, they would say like, you need to have like that going well enough that you can transition without an issue, right. Or enough money in the bank. Well, that was impossible. As a mom, you know, a mom with two little kids and working a full-time job, there was not extra space to like, make enough momentum. I was, I was doing, um, gosh, I'm trying to think from the time my marriage ended, um, about a year later, I became a coach.
And at that time I was doing like a law of attraction coaching. Um, but it wasn't enough. It wasn't enough. And it was literally a friend who said to me, one day, you're just never going to do this. You keep talking about it, but you're never going to do it. So maybe just stop mentioning it. And I was like, I took a step back. I didn't get mad at her. And I was like, wow, I have been talking about this for a couple of years. And I'm a mom for two boys who - I want them to live a life where their words match their actions. And so if I don't match my actions, that mean the most to me, am I really showing them that whatever we desire is possible? No, I was like, I'm not showing them, I'm telling them and telling them is worthless. Right. Um, and so I actually talked to my ex-husband about it. He was one of my - this is one of the craziest things - he was my, one of my biggest supporters in leaving my job. Without being, without being like, you know, you should do this. Like, “I've always thought you could do it”, which I didn't understand.
‘Cause I really never thought he could see who I was or understand what I was about. But I think it was another experience for me where the holy spirit or the universe spoke through someone in order for me to hear where I needed to go.
Jenna: I was just thinking that it sounds like, like your friend saying that was like, a Spirit message.
Tara: Yeah. But it happens so often for all of us. It's just, I think we have to be startled into like, really hearing it and receiving it. Yeah. That's where, where the momentum started is in me embracing myself, the whole life, and then taking leaps of faith.
Jenna: Wow. That's big, that's and that's kind of scary, like you said, as a mom of two and to not have this just like safe, secure, structured, you know, job, and to just venture out on your own, like what sort of support system did you have as you went through that? Like how did, how did you support yourself in that transition?
Tara: Um, so I mean, I think at the time I had maybe eight or $10,000 in the bank, so I had a little bit, but that's not much right, when you have expenses. You know, we had our own home and had all of that. Um, and then I was like, if I have to I'll dip into like, my 401k. So I did all the research, like what I'm going to lose if, if I dipped into it, but I'm going to tell you my biggest support system was I leaned fully into the promise of the universe. And I knew that all the way through my life, I had had my own back, no matter what had happened, like I'd had my own back. And so I had to, like every time I would get scared, I would just say, you've never failed so far in, in a way that like has left you, you on the street. And literally I've been on, I say on my own, since I was 15, ‘cause I was emancipated at 15. And so if you can be that bold - and I did not see myself as bold at 15 - but if you can be that bold, that you're following your way forward, you can guarantee that the universe is going to come right behind you and go, if you just listen, I've got you. Like, we're doing this as a co-creation. Um, and so that's what I had. I didn't have any, anybody else. My parents had already passed. You know, I didn't have any close family. I didn't have a plan B. So my plan A needed to work. Um, I mean, I guess I did, I did have a plan B. I was like, I can go back and get a job again. Um, but that plan B um, stopped being a viable option really quickly. So.
Sinéad: Wow. Vulnerability, that's required a lot of vulnerability, and ah, and I've talked about that a lot. How vulnerability is such a powerful thing, because we think it's the ultimate state of being disempowered and being weak. And this is one of the things that I love about your work, Tara. This is probably the key thing I love - is that everything that we think is a certain way, you see it the other way. So people who normally see vulnerability - and this is what we're taught by mainstream culture society - it's weak, it's weakness. It's being, it's like the lowest, smallest form of being yourself. But we know if you're a spiritual practitioner, if that's not actually true. If you're able to go into that space of vulnerability and say to the universe, like Jenna had just said to the Universe, like “Okay, fine. You know, I can just give me all the, you know, all that you can because I got nothing right now.” Right. And then, and then of course that's when, when the Universe shows up. Yes. That's when the universe shows up more because it's a full receiving. So I just love that you talk about that, Tara. And you know, I make - I'm thinking right now about your sickness, your, your life-threatening sickness that you had, which was called HELLP. Yeah. I mean the actual name of it was HELLP! If you can talk about that, ‘cause that's another amazing example of you being in such a state of deep vulnerability and then, you know, the universe comes through. Can you talk about that a little?
Tara: Yeah. Um, before I talk about that, I just want to say that the space of vulnerability to me that is true vulnerability, it's having ourselves open, knowing that what's going to be showered upon us is kindness and grace. Whereas most people think it's like, you know, somebody cowered over, being whipped or something, but our true vulnerability is opening ourselves up to receive and to give, right. It's like, that's some, that's the power. So to me, I'm like, whenever I'm feeling the quoted vulnerability, I'm like, I just actually moved to this space of like, opening up my body, um, to remind myself that's truth, not what I am projecting on myself. But, um, I did help. I find it comical that the universe did bring me, um, this syndrome, which is really scary. So I was pregnant with my first son. Um, and we were, I want to say seven weeks before he was born. And the, the pregnancy, I really ignored. Like I was so about being productive, that I hated when anybody pointed out that I was pregnant or that I should sit down or anything else.
‘Cause I was just like, ignore this, when I'm a mom, we'll let you know, like nor this, like I, you know, I can keep on going. I was that person where I'm like, I'm fine. Let's just keep on going. And I ignored all the signs of the body. So my body was like, okay girl, we're gonna, we're, we're going to like, bring you a real wake up call here. So HELLP syndrome is where your liver enzymes spike, um, your platelets, um, diminish so much so that you, uh, don't clot, but also you could bleed out of anywhere like your eyes, your nose, your mouth, if you're cut. Right. And so here I am going to be about ready to have a baby. I didn't know that that was what was happening. I started having contractions, but they were odd. And so I went to my doctor and there's four women there. And one woman said to me, you know, the best way to have a baby is naturally and to like, wait, you know, like, wait until you're really dilated. That's who I saw, and she sent me to the hospital right away. And I was like something’s up because if I'm only two centimeters dilated and she's sending me to the hospital, something's up. So I was in question there. The second doctor who was on call came, came up and she was mad that she was called. ‘Cause she's like, you're only two centimeters dilated. Why am I being called? And then she left the room and never came back. And who came in was the anesthesiologist. And he's like, we're going to take you in and we're gonna like, you're going to have your baby today. So I was freaking out and they're like, uh, this is a big deal because you could bleed anywhere, but we're going to do a C-section. So my mind is like, you're going to cut me. And they're like, because if you don't have your baby today, you could die. You could die because your organs could explode - explode!
Jenna: Oh gee. Yeah, God, that is so scary.
Tara: Totally scary. ‘Cause I'm like, I've got it right. I'm, I'm the person who, I've got it. And like nothing bad is ever going to happen to me. I was what I call toxically positive.
You know, I had gratitude journals out the ears, and um, I could do anything. And so here I am at the hospital going to have a baby and um, they have to put me out and then I came to and I was really, really sick. And I remember sitting in the room on the second day, like in the hospital room and the nurse saying to the, the main doctors, the, for the fourth one, actually, um, she's like, do we need to take her to ICU? Like, does she need a blood transfusion? Like this is really bad. Wow. And I know that this is where spirits spoke again. ‘Cause my doctor said, take her off of everything. She will heal herself. That's really bold in a situation like that too. Right. So I'm like, I'm not feeling so great, but okay. You know, but at this, and I didn't even have any doubt. It was like in that moment - I wasn't living very much of a spiritual life anymore - but I knew it was kind of like, all the curtains were drawn back and it was like, this is your time. You're being awakened. You, you're going to do this. It wasn't even a choice. Like, you're going to heal. And an angel just spoke through that woman. And so let's go now that, you know, my son is now almost 16 years old. It took me a while to do any further advancement on this journey. But I feel at that moment I was awakened to what was possible and that I wasn't alone. Um, but I will say, I believe that my body was doing this because I was so ignoring it. I was so ignoring myself. I'm sorry. It makes me emotional. Um, I just lived for everyone else and to do life. Right, right. I wanted it to be the best wife. I wanted to be the best manager I want, you know, I wanted to like excel, and I had ambitions to the detriment of really living. And so my body was like, if you're gonna hate on us and ignore us, like, you're just not going to live anymore because this isn't really living.
Jenna: Got it. So deeply. I'm getting emotional now thinking about that, because we, so many of us do that to ourselves. Right. We don't even realize, until like, a wake up call happens.
Sinéad: And sometimes that wake up call is not, you know, I mean, not everyone is at a place where they're able to hear that doctor, that voice that was coming through that doctor, because what doctor would say, oh yeah, she's like, she's drastically, drastically ill. She's got a newborn baby that has to be born seven weeks early. Let's just let her body heal itself.
Jenna: Like, that's not how Western medical doctors operate. A holistic practitioner might know that the body can heal itself. But yeah, a Western doctor?
Tara: And this is what, like, I really believe - that when Spirit needs to speak, it will change the words that people say and change like the trajectory. And then what we do with it is our own choice. Right. But I don't think that she would have said that of her own volition. Not at all. I agree with you guys.
Jenna: Wow. How long did it take you to go through that healing process? What was that like? And, and, and how, how did you focus on your own healing?
Tara: Um, like, the healing of the body was excruciating. Like, so, um, I asked a lot of people who had C-sections. I was like, how long were you in pain? Because I mean, I was in a lot of pain, a lot, a lot. Um, and I was, I was off actually for 16 weeks with my first son. ‘Cause I saved up. I was like, I, you know, I really want to spend time with him, but I would say that all of those 16 weeks, it hurt to like, take one step up a stair, um, to sit on the toilet was like, excruciating. Like you don't realize like how many muscles in your stomach you need to use in order to sit down. This is not the general, um, experience for people with C-sections. It was just that my body, uh, was so messed up inside from HELLP syndrome. And it's very rare. So they didn't have aftercare. They were like, Ooh, good. We got you through, you didn't die. She didn't die. Fantastic. Go home and be okay. Um, and so the general thought, even for my husband, is you're at home. Like, you know, let's go, like provide, let's keep on going. Um, so I would say, I don't know, like it just happened by itself. I didn't go into consciously taking care of myself or taking time out or anything consciously at that point. Um, there was an invitation for awakening. I took it and the fact that I stayed alive, but it didn't - it took a while until like, I actually actively got onboard. And I would say, um, that came more through like having my second son. He was really the one who, um, brought me to myself. Um, the first one saved me so that I would truly live. Um, and so, you know, those two are for sure, they're my greatest teachers without a doubt. Um, I don't think that, I think there's like, so much to - we're here to support them, but they come to bring us to our wholeness, like, so.
Sinéad: They do, they do. And that's actually something that I've talked about with both of you as well, that children are so incredibly important in our world and they're treated like they're not fully formed and therefore their thoughts and feelings are not totally valid or real. I don't think we, we really know how to value children properly in this North American society. So I love Tara that you see your kids as energies that came into your life to serve you as well as you serving them, because it really is a process, right? It's a partnership, parents and children. And you work with teens, you work with kids, you work with parents and you've been sharing with me some of the amazing results of those sessions. And it's actually, it gives me a particular feeling. When you talk about your sessions with kids, and I know you get a particular feeling, right, from your sessions with kids, that's not quite the same as when you're working with adults. And I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about what those sessions are like, like what are you doing with them? First of all, you do something called the Muse Method, which is really hard to explain. It's very…. ineffable, because it's essentially energy and vibrational work, but it's so transformative. It lands so well for the kids and parents, whoever they are that you're working with. And you got actual results, you see, you know, you've seen people are seeing results in their lives. I saw results in my life after my sessions with you. But what are you experiencing in your work? Particularly with young people? I mean, we all know young people right now are a special kind of generation. We're seeing a lot of very interesting beings being born and you're experiencing some of that. So tell us about that experience, all the things you want to say about working with young people. We want to hear it.
Tara: Sure. Um, gosh, I will say part of my transition is in fighting a lot of the things the universe wanted me to be, right. And so working with teams wasn't something that I asked for. It was like, here you go, you're going to do this. And I was like, no, that's okay. Like, that seems really scary to me. Right? Because a parent gets really nervous about their kid, especially if their kid is struggling. So when they bring their child, to me, their child is already struggling, whether they're struggling because they don't want to stay alive. Like they're saying that they want to kill themselves, whether they've actively made choices to try and do that, whether they're dissociating, um, having social anxiety, whatever it is, like their child is struggling. So there's like this massive amount of pressure. Um, and I was like, no, no, I'll opt out of that. And then I realized that I was that teenager that needed somebody not to fix my problems, but to show me where my power was and how to move forward in a way that creates differently. And that's all I was always asking for. And yet everybody would say like, would validate yes, you’ve been abused or yes, this person speaks to you unkindly. And I was like, great. I understand all those things are happening, but how do I function and how do I create a different way forward? Because I don't want to live in this anymore. I don't want coping skills, I want out. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, not, not even just heal it, but like how do I move forward in a different way? Right. Like that piece. And so, um, with the teenagers, like we really, like, I do a lot of question and asking about who they are, um, what they love to do, how they love to do it because, um, after discovering their natural way of being, um, all the way from like how they relate to others, whether it's one-on-one multi, um, through movement, you know, like some kids, like they talk better when they're moving in sports and so on. Um, all the way to like how they relate, how they are motivated, what inspires them, because if they can find themselves, they can move into this space of adulthood with more ease. Um, and they can actually embrace all the emotions because we come into the teenage years and it's, it's the bridge where we find ourselves to be an adult and parents don't like the fact that like a kid is pushing back, but it's how we find our voice. What do I like? I don't identify with you anymore. You know, is my voice the same as yours? Is it, is it different? Is it the same as somebody else? And the pushback is, is a really delicious place. And so not just helping them with it, but also helping the parents to, to identify like this isn't them, you know, acting out. This is them trying to find themselves and society school, you know, be, even being a loving parent can sometimes get in the way of a child finding their own way forward.
So that's what we look at. And then we do look at some of their struggles, whether it's, you know, going into a group, how do you handle, um, going into a group thing, if you're, you are an empath and a lot of them don't know that word, right? They don't realize I'm absorbing all these other people and all of a sudden I'm crowded out. Right? So, um, that takes me to what the Muse Method is. There's different things. So there's like two levels of it. One level is what I give to people to do themselves. And then the other level is, um, where I tap in to them in a session. So the first one it's really easy and it's your hands on your body? Um, close your eyes, you're using breath. But the fourth piece is what's so important. And it's what makes it so different from everything else.
You're breathing life into yourself. Because if you take up more space in your own body and the space around you, the things that are crowding you out, can't stay there. They just can't. And what most modalities, even that I learned, focus on, is removing the ice or the rocks. And then that space that had ice and rocks in it, is just primed for more ice and rocks. So you get out of the session and then you go and find the thing that just feels right there. Coldness feels right, or sharp shards, right? And so people just keep putting the same crap back in themselves and they don't actually find more of what got hidden in themselves, whether it's their voice, their expressions, their desires, all those things that maybe somebody made wrong, or maybe we just were like, “Ooh, I was praised over here, and so I need to keep doing the things that like, get me praise” and you lose sight of, oh, but these things like, give me meaning. And like, they make me feel alive. So that's where we focus, is how to feel alive. And then the other piece is not just to feel alive in yourself, it's to how to feel alive and function with others, You know, because we need relationships and that other person isn't here to make sure that we're always okay.
Jenna: Say that again, I think we all need to hear that.
Tara: All the other people aren't here to make sure I'm okay on, on every given day and everything.
Jenna: In that moment, it's on us, right.
Tara: It is. And then it's on us. And when we come together, like those bring new experiences and we expand. Um, so part of it is also where there's holes that we often go, oh my gosh, this is where I'm wrong or I'm hurt or whatever. Those are often the places where somebody else gets to fit in, you know? And so like our life expands, but it gets filled in instead of like putting a Teflon, coating over it where it's like, I don't want you to see this, stay over here. It keeps us separate. If you actually expose those areas and you go, I don't know, like, you know what, you're mentioning Sinéad that Jenna did with the universe, like - “I don't know, like show me the way” that's where all the sudden the universe is like, oh, you're finally willing to listen. I can come into those gaps that you don't have any idea of. And then I can expand your dreams and I can make it even better. So that’s probably the piece that I love the most, I love helping people to function as themselves in the world, but in a world where you connect, that's where it gets so powerful.
Jenna: Yeah. Yeah. That's sort of like life then reaches a whole new level, like in a whole new level of meaning and purpose. And, uh, you know, I was reflecting on what you were saying about helping people operate in the world as themselves. Right? ‘Cause we, we, a lot of us don't even come into the world being taught that we are a unique being with unique passions and skills and interests and things that will light us up. And it takes so long to figure that out for so many people. Right. And, and to even have permission, you know, to find that, you know, we talk about following our highest passion a lot, right? Like just what's lighting us up. What's exciting us and reminding ourselves to go there, but it's a journey to get to that place where you're allowing that.
And I just love that you are helping young people on that journey in a way that, you know, so many people get to experience. That's so powerful. And I just want to appreciate you for that, Tara. Thank you.
Sinéad: Ditto. Ditto. I want to also like in conjunction to what you just said, Jenna, and what you were saying before, Tara, um, you talk a lot about honoring, right? Like, and you use words in a way that I really love. You, you have a way of reframing things for people also that something we see space where we didn't see space before, or there's a word that you use instead of other words that we use more commonly, words that make us like - just this one word, honoring, for example, instead of “boundaries”, that make you just go, oh, if there's all this space within that way of thinking, right? ‘Cause it just takes one word just to switch our thinking or switch our mindset or our attitude or perspective in a way that is enough for us to see another door that can open. So how do you talk, can you talk about how you involve honoring in your work? Um, because it directly relates to what Jenna was just appreciating about you and the fact that I know so many of your clients love that you address things in, in this way that we're just not used to. I don't even know how to phrase it. It's like, it reminds me a little bit of your approach. Reminds me a little bit of, um, photography, you know, there's this concept in photography and black and white photography where you see the light in the photograph or you see the shadows in the photograph, right? Like you can put it in relief in white relief or an lightened relief, and we can put it in darkness relief and you don't see those two things as good and bad, as polarizing concepts, right? The shadow and the light. You don't see them as polarizing. And so you're reframing these concepts that we have so firmly cemented in our minds that have to do really with separateness.
Right. And you're about wholeness. So when you talk about honoring, you're talking about honoring our wholeness and I'd love to hear you speak to that a bit.
Tara: Yeah. I think I even said for a long time, I wanted to move into my greatness. And then I, like, I do this thing where like, I'm always looking at my own words and my own desires. And I was like, but I, you know, I want to be loved and all the other parts, right. Not just my greatness, cause like I can't be great all the time. And it was just this real, almost like a harsh reality. I just can't do it. I can't do it. I can't do it. And, and, like I wanted to allow somebody in who would love me. Okay. So we can want somebody to love us, but not allow it. And so, um, this is where, like my relationship with Joe comes in because I believe not just the universe, but my passed father, his grandparents who were passed, brought us together. And here's this man who loves, like every fiber of my being. And I could feel inside of me this almost a repulsion to that, like this isn't right.
Like I was my greatness before and I was rejected. Like I was doing it all right. Like I was ticking off all the, all the different boxes and I was doing it all right. And it still wasn't right. How in the world are you loving me when I'm just like, I'm just being, you know, like sometimes I'm snotty and crying and saying the wrong things and, and, and all of this. And so I realized like, we need to move to a space of wholeness in ourselves, not just in our relationships where we really, really are okay with the fact that we're good and bad, we're dark and light and that it does - the darkness doesn't actually need to transform into light. It just is a part of us. And in allowing it to exist inside of us, like allowing, like, “I don't know” to exist. Like we don't always have to be knowers. We then also allow the other person to be that without judgment. Right. I don't need his best self. I get to see that and everything else. And I love the fact that he's whole, like, I'm like, thank God. Like thanks for not being perfect. You know, show off a little, right. It's really, really delicious in that space. Right. There's, there's just a comfort in it, but also like, it really comes down to this. It kinda came down to me on a daily basis to go, it's still okay. It really is still okay to be whole. And that means, like I said, the wrong thing there - or I said a hurtful thing, not a wrong thing - um, so when it comes to working with clients, um, I feel like I've been that space always with them of, let's just discover what's showing up because the other side of this is a lot of our gifts show up with pain or anguish or, um, I don't want to do it. Right. Like being an empath can show up as like, this is really painful. Like why in the world was I given this gift? And so we look at that, but we also turn it over. I was like, you say, like, it's like the underbelly, like, but if you're absorbing this, what else are you absorbing that you're not acknowledging?
What are you, what else do you know that you're not acknowledging that you can like, ask for more of that and then use that as a momentum going forward. And so it's, it's looking at both sides of things all the time and just being grateful. Um, because I'm using it.
Sinéad: Yeah.That's what you say it's about, right? That fear has power. Anger has power.
Tara: Yeah. I love anger. So it's ‘cause like everybody says, like underneath anger is sadness. And I'm like, not always! Anger, it's like this huge catalyst for change, and asking, right. It's like, those two are like on the other opposite ends of the spectrum.
Right. And so if you tap into anger, it will move you into action. If you ask it questions. And so I'm like, oh, like if I have clients, a client right now, and she's like, anger - that's an emotion I don't ever feel. And I'm like, maybe it's because you haven't let yourself. Because if you're telling me you're frustrated, that's a form of anger. It's just that you sweep it aside and you go into the sadness instead of like, using the power of that for transformation. And you know, so there's, there's so much power in every single emotion. And that is one of the ways that we can be nonjudgmental. It's like, where is the power in this? Instead of saying, oh, how do I get rid of it? How do I ignore this?
How do I get this out of my relationship? Or out of, out of my team? It's, it's like, oh, this is exciting. What can we do with it? Like, what is this actually bringing you? Um, and then it is like, so you keep mentioning like honor, honoring and boundaries. Um, to me, the definition of boundaries is putting up walls or lines. And if I put a line up or a wall, well, first of all, if I said to you, Sinéad, you know, you can't go past this wall with me.
It feels rejecting. It feels like you're all of a sudden the villain and I'm the victim. And then also there's this like, rebel inside most of us where if there's a wall or a line, we want to push it. Right? So we've actually just invited somebody to push our lines and our walls, which is not what we want, not at all what we want. And also with boundaries, most of the time we stick around, we stop moving. So we're like until you meet my boundary, I'm not going to move. So I'm going to stick here right here with you. I'm going to keep showing up until you change. Whereas honoring is all about this.
It's saying, gosh, this conversation is really toxic for me. I love you, but I'm going to walk away for right now, right? Like this isn't working for me. I'm not going to make it all about you, but I'm going to walk away. And then I'm going to come back at another time. And if, if the conversation goes that direction again, I'm going to walk away again.
But I'm going to keep on moving. And the back door is always open! Because if you want to be in the space that, like this great conversation happens in, I'm open for it.
But if you don't, it's on me to walk and go find that. So sometimes we're walking away from friendships, relationships, whatever, but we're also not just walking away. We're walking towards honoring. It requires of us to know what we want, Not just what we want from others, but who we want to be. And we're like - I have a loosely, say, friendship. I was in a conversation for a little while with somebody and anytime we would text or talk, it would always turn negative. Like every time. Like she was very, very negative and then I would become negative. And so I spoke about it and I said, you know, this isn't fun for me. This is what I like. And you know, I tried to change myself like, okay, I'm just going to talk about things. I'm going to ask different questions. And I was like, this isn't working. And so in the end I had to go. The relationships that I love are the ones that are like, deep and meaningful and we both go out like, feeling expanded. So I walked away. I walked towards the people who it's just luscious to be in their space. And I didn't wish her any harm. You know? I'm like, I hope you find the people who you want to be around. And if that's complaining, cool, right. People have to be with, you know, and you know, there's times where I complained too, but it's not what I want to do all the time. Right. But I can't expect her to change. I can give her the invitation, but if she doesn't take it, it's on me to honor myself and then to go find people that are in that space naturally. Yeah.
Jenna: Framing - sorry. That reframing of boundaries versus honoring is so huge. I've never heard anyone talk about it that way. And that feels so much better to me, you know, that idea that it's not a hard line. It's not that wall of separation. Right. ‘Cause I think that's what, what causes so much of our struggle in our, our, you know, internal, you know, sense of like, dissatisfaction with life is just all the separation that we, you know, experience and create. And I just, I love that idea of walking towards, right, what's honoring for you. I love that.
Sinéad: Yeah. And that's what I really love most about - I want to use what you just said, Jenna, to highlight, um, what I feel is Tara's biggest skillset - which is doing that, like looking at the underbelly of something and seeing the power and possibility in the underbelly, in what is not seen and what is not obvious. Right. And all the things we plain deny or, or escape or squish down because we want to pretend it's not there.
Those are the things that Tara invites in and works with. And I just love that so much. Just like what you just said, Jenna, the idea of walking towards, rather than walking away from, even though you are walking away, you know, you're using your freedom of choice for yourself to honor yourself to walk away. You're not only walking away, you're also walking towards and you involve the, the, uh, the yin-yang of almost any situation in, in, in these conversations, Tara, that gives the listener a feeling of wholeness, right?
Which is your whole approach that you want people to be able to accept themselves as their whole self and to stop judging all the things that we'd labeled as being bad or wrong, which comes from our ideas of separateness, right? These are the things that are okay. They go in these boxes or this box and all the things that are not okay, which are decided on just through trends and mindsets that exist in our reality at that time, because good and bad changes all the time. Right. That for me in this box and these things are, are just firmly concretely like that. And that is how life is supposed to go, but that's just not true. And you really bring that to the focus on your work. And I know it's really hard to describe your work, but you make intuitive body healing, such a part of it.
And I thought maybe we could kind of go back to that in terms of, um, you know, talking about honoring and, and really, uh, relishing the wholeness of ourselves and the wholeness of others. But mainly this is about the self-work. So when you are talking about intuitive body healing, you're using that specifically as a tool with, um, in supporting people to find their wholeness. How do you do that? Can you talk a little bit about that? I know it's really hard to do that. It's hard to talk about ineffable things, but, um, and always said to me, you know, you never know for sure how these sessions are going to go until when you show up and you're in the moment it's so intuitive, it's so much part of just the flow of what's going on and that's necessary as part of your practice. But if you can still talk a little bit about how you do that, I mean, the hands-on part, what you ask people to do that would be really wonderful to hear about.
Tara: Yeah. I think the first thing is, is I go into a session, um, and there's three entities to it. There's me, um, them, and then the universe, right? So “them” also is like what I call their muse within. Like it's where we're whole inside. Like it's a voice that's always advocating for us and also very much connected to the universe of collective consciousness. So there's a three-way thing. And I empty myself out of really any ideas that I have, anything that's worked for somebody else, because when we start to do the work, I'm completely tapped into them and what the universe or their muse has for them. So that's first, and that's not always as easy as it sounds, because there's a part of us that wants to show up the best for people and have the answers. And I've learned throughout my time from having the answers, to having better questions. Because then the answers come. Um, and so, um, as I was saying earlier, like it is about hands-on. So hands-on, the client is almost always virtual these days. So I love that piece because then they're not reliant on me as the one who's doing this to them. It's coming from them. So hands-on is because we need touch, like from birth, our bodies required to be in contact with touch, but most of us look for other people to be our touch points, you know, in every way. And so this is like, find the place on your body, wherever it is. And it might be all kinds of places where all of a sudden, you just feel like you slotted in.
So I, I, you know, I get people into their body by asking them that, and then we close our eyes so that you move out of the brain. So the work that I do is experiential. It's not mindset work. You know, we're really tapping into, most people live from here up and then just take their body with them. So I'm awakening that here down, um, where ourselves and our whole, everything that we are, has so much wisdom and it's really connected to the universe. And so it's why we know, but we can't explain, like I need to go there, that person's mind. And if you gave me half an hour, I'd be able to explain it.
But my body knows initially like, oh, something bad is going to happen. Like I need to move out of the way, whatever it is. It's not just gut instinct. It's literally every single cell of our body that has information for us that most of us have been taught to ignore, um, and to silence. Right? And so all the way from, like, how we want to move to desires we have, to instinctually reacting. So that's why we close our eyes so that we get into the body. And then we use breath because breath reminds us that we are connected. It also, um, to me, breath is the reminder that we are not just here as a giver. We're here as a receiver. We can not exist if we are not connected to receiving. So, um, so those three, if you want to do it, we could do it for like three seconds.
Jenna: Okay, great. I was, I was just thinking that. You read my mind, Tara!
Tara: So I just want you to tap into yourself. Um, and so the best way to do it is if we all close our eyes and just breathe, and then you move your hands until you find the place where you're just like, okay there, and then we'll just sit there for like 30 seconds. So if you guys can say to me, I'm there because I'm going to close my eyes and do it too.
Um, but allow yourself to move a little bit with your hands.
Jenna: Okay. I'm there
Sinéad: I'm there.
Tara: Okay. So we'll just breathe right here. And again, the intention is to breathe life into who you are. So you take up more of your body and your space around you.
Sinéad: And just because we've got some silence right now, for people who are listening, um, do you encourage people to breathe in a certain way, Tara? Like, do you do with the, you know, in, through your nose, out through your mouth thing or is it just however it feels right to the person who's doing this exercise?
Tara: So generally it's however it feels right. Um, so I'll let you guys open your eyes, but, um, I think so we can come back for a second and I'll, so I'll talk about breath, but even for the 30 seconds that we did it, how do you feel?
Tara: Where were your hands? I didn't see where we, you -
Sinéad: My hands were on the back of my head, one on the back of my head, which is a place that Tara introduced me to actually. Like, I wasn't connected to that at all. I was putting - I don't know why - and then she said try the back of your head. She was just, she's incredibly intuitive. So we were having a session and she said, I feel like you've got this energy in the back of your head, you know, just try putting your hand there. And I put my hand there and it honestly felt like something was unlocked. Yeah. So ever since then, I've tried to make a regular practice of putting my hand on the back of my head. And then usually on my chest, feels good. Yeah. So the breathing helps me go into my body. I just immediately feel more in my body.
Jenna: Yeah. Yeah. I went to my womb. I thought I thought up here at first, but then I just, it felt like I needed energy and connection there. Yeah. And it may be different each time. Um, and each experience may be different. So most of the time for myself and people that I work with, you feel more centered, a bit more at ease or a lot more at ease and just more in tune with yourself, it brings about clarity and you literally do take up more space. All the other stuff starts to fall out. There are times where, when you go into that space, because there might be so much ice heaviness, whatever in your life, and you start to turn that fire on that emotions come up or like, you just feel like you're drowning for a little while. Um, and so things like that can happen because you're taking up more space, you're melting the stuff or transforming it as it's moving out.
And you can feel that like nausea or whatever as it's moving out. So, um, but it's probably the fastest way to honoring yourself and to moving into a different space in whatever you're doing. So I personally encourage people to do that for one minute, three times a day. Like before you get out of bed, when you get in bed and one time where you feel overwhelmed, and if you do it more than that rock on that we can each show up for ourselves for three minutes, three minutes a day, you know, where we're like, okay, I'm just going to breathe life into me. I matter right now. Um, so that's, that's that piece. But for me, when I do it longer in a session, it gives me access to what's happening in here. Like it gives me access to where your muse is screaming. Hey, I need to do this. And so a lot of times people will come into a session and they'll say, I'm struggling with this. And we don't really look at that because over here is, if you go and do this, all of this will all of a sudden fall into place or won't exist anymore. It's because you're like, you're ignoring your own needs. You're ignoring this voice. That's saying, go on your own and you know, have, have your own job. You know, whatever it is. Like a lot of times it's, it's a forward momentum that we're trying to silence and it's causing pain and another area of our lives. Right. Whether it's in our body or a new relationship, whatever, it could not be that like that relationship's bad. It's just, if you do this, your relationship will be better because you're fulfilled.
Jenna: Yeah, honoring that moment, too, that you were talking about when you start to do this intuitive body work and allow that, that ice, you know, to start melting and how uncomfortable that can be in that moment. And you know, so many of us, you know, we're not taught that it's okay to just cry and let that out if it needs to come out. And, and so I think, you know, that's such an important message for people is, you know, when you're in that moment, let that release happen, you know? ‘Cause it's, it's happening so that you can bring more of you in.
Tara: Yeah. It's huge. It's like, and it's also about helping the people around you to be okay with that. I remember, uh, with Joe, he would, he used to say to me, oh my gosh, like I hate it when you cry. He just wanted me to feel better and be happy. And I had to say to him, you're the space that like, gives me the freedom to cry and get it out. And I'm like, it is one of the greatest gifts you give me is to be able to do it, not just alone, but with somebody who cares. And so this is huge. And on the other side of this is something that's greater than happiness, which is deep connection and fulfillment. Like you're bridging the gap by allowing this out of me, with you. And you know, we're so often taught, like the pinnacle is happiness, but it's not like happiness is, it's just another emotion. It moves. It's here and there. But there's other things that we can go for that are substantial and deeply connect us and you know, to each other and ourselves.
Sinéad: Yeah, we really think, I mean, I thought so much about that. What you just said about happiness being the pinnacle, you know, we, it's so ingrained into us that you will be happy if you have, or when you have, or if you create, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, ABCD and F. But the fact is that the human condition involves dissatisfaction. It's a natural part of our state to be dissatisfied, unhappy, whatever, because we're living in a - maybe dimension, maybe, you know, people have different ideas about this place that we are all in together. Jenna and I feel like it's this third dimension right, of, of humanity where, uh, it's a dimension made up of duality and duality is necessary for our growth, for progress. We have to involve the full understanding of reality to really be able to grow. And you're talking, I mean, earlier at the beginning of our conversation, you said that you were talking about how you and your ex-husband went to couples therapy. And it was just this kind of roundabout conversation where you just, you just kept circling through the same issues. And just now you were talking about, you know, not, not focusing on whatever the challenge is at hand, but focusing instead on how you can use it. It just kind of reminds me of the way you have conversations with your clients because you're, it brings up the phrase, you know, whatever we focus on, we make more of that. So if you're focusing on the problem, the challenge, the difficulty, the struggle, the stress, the, with the, you know, the suffering, you're going to get more of it. But if you change your perspective and see it as being something, as you've been putting it, something that propels you forward, it's an opportunity, it's a catalyst, it's a slingshot, it's whatever, to not resist it and push back against it. But to actually welcome it in, which is so hard to do. I mean, that's so uncomfortable, right? To allow discomfort or anger or suffering or whatever it is, to allow it to be in your life on a conscious level, go, okay, I'm just going to welcome this in and try to learn from it. That's so incredibly difficult to do. It is not what we're taught to do.
Jenna: And with another person.
Terra: And with another person - like it's, it cracks me up because I've been working with couples lately. And one of them always comes as like, this is the problem. Like, this is what I want to address. This is where I want to go. I just have to always say, I cannot, I will not go about it that way, because what we're really doing is we're putting one person as, you know, the one who's wrong. And we're, we're saying, I'm going to put the blame here. And if you just fix yourself, it'll all be good. You know? But it isn't an impetus - like whatever we're dissatisfied with, it is an opening. It's an invitation, even more than a lesson, it's an invitation for something greater. So if you're dissatisfied with the communication in your relationship, it's like, okay, so what are you looking for? And most people go, we'll have better communication. And I'm like, but no, like beyond that, if there wasn't this problem with communication, like, what do you want together? Like, what do you love? Like what can we use as building blocks to get something further? Because you're saying I've gotten to such a point, oh, I don't know that I have a piece of paper here. I can. I do, um, such a point that I'm bored now. So I feel like this is life. And hopefully this is going to show up on camera. So this is the back of a spiral because, um, so, you know, whatever, we start here in life and we have views to get here, like just to there. Right? And so this seems like, so amazing. And that's what we're going towards. But once we get here, this doesn't seem like enough anymore.
Like we're bored. And so we want more. And so we get dissatisfied. All of this is something to build upon, right? Because this is like, it's going to be the building blocks of this. We all of a sudden, once we get up to here, we're like, oh! there's more. And that's what the Universe says, is there's more to this relationship. You can have more. So I'm going to make you dissatisfied. Don't go back and fix this stuff. If there's problems, go here and use all the lusciousness here to build this and then add some new stuff in.
Sinéad: Going forward, always going forward.
Jenna: Yeah. I love that.
Tara: Always going forward, right. Always going to get dissatisfied. Like we're meant to be in the more, all the time, ‘cause we're creators. Right. And so if we've already created something, it's, it's part of our nature to go, okay, now what else? Yeah. Yeah.
Jenna: So then you have to expand into that. You have to expand your vision and, and, and expand into like, what else is there that can be added to this equation to make it this evening?
Tara: And what else do I need? Like all the sudden it's like, can you let other people in or let the universe in? And then can you pull back? This is where, looking back isn't always a bad thing. Like look back and pull some of those things in that work, while leaving space for like, new additions. So yeah!
Sinéad: It really reminds me of how, you know, you might not be saying this to people, but you are bringing in a cosmic sense for people you know, who we are.
Right. And who the individual can be. And part of that, and this is one of the biggest lessons I learned from you because you kept saying this to me over and over and over again. Like, I couldn't really hear it. I heard it, but it wasn't landing. Right. And, and I had this sense in myself of, you know, it's possible to know something, but to know what were you were alluding to before where most people live, which is basically the neck up, right. We live in our head. We live in our thoughts, not so much in our body. So when you have, when your knowledge or understanding, lands in your body, that's when I personally feel like I really get it. And so you kept saying to me, Sinéad, allow yourself to take up more space, allow yourself to take up more space. And I was really contemplating that and thinking, okay, what does that really mean? And then more and more over time, it began into this understanding of not just me, but all of us were taught to not take up a lot of space. Like our lives are only supposed to have a certain amount of space, right? Like we're supposed to have room for bills and responsibilities. We're supposed to have room for a house in our home life. We're supposed to have room for a job room for our friend's room, for our family, you know, for these things, maybe for travel. But then that's it like, that's the space that our lives take up right? Is the ingredients that we think encompass our lives. But really we are cosmic. We are not boundaried at all. We are not walled in at all. Unless we do it to ourselves. We have to change our mindset to realize that we can take up as much space as we want or need.
And our lives can do that. Because as you put it, we are creators. I just love that. You said that human nature is creation. And also because we live in duality, right? Creativity and destruction are hand in hand, create destroy are both dynamic ways of being that we can utilize, right? It's not like creativity is wonderful and destruction is awful. There's power to both of them. And you really bring that into the conversation. You allow room for discomfort, room for unpleasantness, room, for pain without saying, okay, we have to get rid of this. It's more like, what is pain saying to you? What is the voice of pain telling you that you really need? And I just love that so much. How do you, again, work with the underbelly, the uncertainty, the end scene, and you flip things over so that the person sees the other side, whereas they couldn't possibly have before. It's like the back of your bureau, right? You never see the back of your bureau. You only see that the drawers, but if you look back there, there's something back there too. There's information, there's something back there.
Jenna: Well, I love what you were saying too Tara, about like, the creative process too.
Right. You know, when we're, when we're kind of stuck in that struggle place, or something's not working, or we're getting dissatisfied, it's like, how can we just get more creative, you know, about what the vision is here and how can we bring an even better, bigger vision to life. And, and I think, you know, we, we, we find ourselves so stuck in that place sometimes, right? Because like you were saying, Sinéad, you know, we're, we're meant to be big creators, you know, in our life experiences. And we can create and, and develop anything. We can imagine. We just have to have the, the inner, you know, sight and creativity and vision to do that, and then bring it to life. And I love that you bring that into relationship, because that's, you know, I'm reflecting back on my experiences. You know, that's not something we're taught, you know, about relationships. Like, how can we get really creative about the relationship together?
Tara: Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's a piece that’s like - a lot of people will talk about, how do I make that one happy? How do I make her happy, whatever. But there is a third entity in every relationship, which is the “we”. How do I take care of “we”? Not just, are you happy, but are, are we happy? What are we doing in that space? Like, how are we having fun? Because otherwise two people are happy and they're moving separately, away from each other, which I think a lot of relationships. But I also think that there's a, you talked about imaginings. And even though I'm an artist, I'm not a very good visualizer. And so when people say like, oh, can you visualize this? I usually can't. And so I've really gotten good at knowing there's a greater vision than I even have thought of and to ask the question to be shown it, or like to allow it to happen through me.
Um, so that, like, I feel like the universe whispers to a lot of us and says, I need you to rise into this place. And I'm like, I can't see that. Or I don't want, I don't want whatever that's even feeling like. And, and yet the willingness to go, you, you know, that I'm going to slot into that naturally take me along, allow me to surrender to it. You know, you - going back to your word, vulnerability - there's a lot of surrender to becoming the fullness of who we are instead of - I think we've put a lot of coats on that snuff out who we truly are, And we put pressure on ourselves to figure that out ourselves.
Jenna: Right. And then that's the mind and the ego getting in the way when, to your point, we have all of this support out there that we can just ask for, right. To help show us a bigger vision, you know, ‘cause the universe has so much more in store for us than we can even imagine. Right? Like our vision can be pretty big, but it can even be limited, right. Compared to, compared to the universe, who are we? Compared to the universe, right. When we can tap into, you know, that, that whole, which we are a part of. Yeah.
Sinéad: That's our natural state. I mean, it really is our natural state and something. I love that you address also Tara, because, you know, we've talked about, um, how, not in a lot of depth, but we've played with the idea, you know, you're born into a new body because all three of us believe that, that the, um, the consciousness of any human being is eternal, right. That we are on this eternal journey of discovery, growth, and challenge and all of it to, to, to advance our consciousness. Right. That's the whole purpose of being alive, I think anyway. And then, so we, we’re born into a new body, we’re a newborn baby, and we're in our natural state of just receptivity and joy.
And you know, like, this is why babies are a joy to the world because they really are the most… pure. And I don't really like the word pure, but it’s the most, I guess, accurate representation of our true state. Right. Of just softness and receiving and joy and, um, and also wordlessness, right? Like there's a lot of communication that goes on between human beings that does not actually involve words and talking. You've said so often that it's really difficult for you to describe with words, with language, what you do and how it works. Because language, you know, especially, I think at this key time in humanity where we're seeing such huge growth in spirituality, with, for human beings and we're seeing this massive shift and change happening all over the earth, um, that people have opportunities to learn and grow in different ways, right, but that our current language is incredibly limited in terms of being able to explain that process without experience. And so that feeling of knowing that you were talking about earlier, earlier, Tara, where, you know, all your cells just know - you just have that sense. Everyone can relate to that. Everybody knows what that feeling is. Like, it doesn't matter whether they’re, if they're in this spiritual community or not, there's this deep integral, innate, universal, I think part of ourselves, that just knows. And that's the part that can come into being when we do work like yours, right. When we just allow ourselves to, we stop piling on all the coats of the expectation of, you know, judgment or shame, or, you know, we should have this kind of car or we should be making this kind of money. We should have this kind of family. Just shed them, shedding them all, lying back on the ground with our arms open, like in your painting, and just saying, okay, Universe, I'm here. What do I do next? Yeah. And just asking the questions, that's something you talk a lot about too, is asking questions rather than using pre-existing knowledge or understanding, which could very easily be flawed because of our conditioning. So I'd love to hear you talk a little more about asking questions and how that process works.
Tara: Um, I feel like most of us go into anything looking for the answers, right? Like whether it's a problem with a friend, a spouse, a parent with your business, it's like, what's the right answer. Like what do I need to do? And I know that that's a question that you're starting with, but it's really pressurized into finding the right way instead of what is this, like, there's more questions to ask for everything that's coming up. And when we start to ask questions, it literally opens up doorways of possibility. It opens up our being from seeing two ways or one way feeling trapped, suffocated, um, snuffed out, whatever it is. And it, it goes, oh, oh my gosh, there's so much more. And then it also accesses us, accesses us to universal consciousness that goes, “Hey!”, like, “you haven't even learned about this here. I've got this for you. Like, this is possible.” And to me that also is not just about expanding and moving into open areas of possibilities.
It moves us out of the space of worry. It moves us out of the space of fear because all of a sudden we can ask, which is prayer. We can ask to be shown and we can ask for something greater than we could imagine. And to me, everybody that I've ever talked to, if they have the ability to ask, access something that's greater than they could imagine.
Right? Like you don't have to go down that rabbit hole. Like this is the beginning, like the precipice or the purpose precipice. I don't know if that's the right word, but like the beginning place of something greater, your fear is getting placed. Um, earlier you talked Sinéad, about like all these things that happen, like, instead of resisting. Um, there's another place that we can go to is, like gratitude. Like immediately. “I'm afraid. I'm worried. Thank you. Thank you for showing up. My body's letting me know that first I'm out of alignment, that I'm, I'm like completely contracted because if I'm in fear, I'm contracted, I'm not connected to myself as well as I'm not connected to the universe.
Thank you for letting me know.” So, you know, I immediately go into gratitude and the next space I go into is Muse Method because I'm like, okay, I, I can't ask myself to just be it. Like, I need to breathe life back into myself. I need to give myself the space to expand. So I'm just going to breathe, close my eyes and put my hands on. I'm here with you. We've got this. We're going to expand. And then I ask questions because it's like, “Cool. I have no idea. I don't know how to do this.” You know, recently I'm like, I, my, my son called me last night. Like right before I went to bed, I've told Sinéad this, like, I've had a lot of nightmares lately. And I realized my nightmares are fueled by worry. And so he called me and he's like, mom, on Friday, can we go and have a long talk? ‘Cause I'm not doing well. And I was like, thank you so much for telling me right before bed. And that you can't talk about it right now. And we're not going to talk about it for a couple of days. For anybody who doesn't realize, I'm divorced. And so my kids are not currently at my house right now. And I was like, okay. And I was like, okay, wait a minute. He's an infinite being. I'm an infinite being. I just contracted, like, not only am I not believing in him, I'm not believing in myself or the Universe to help us. So I'm just going to breathe. And then I'm going to ask, and then I'm going to move to this space of meditation, which is receiving. And I'm going to say Universe, you're going to show me how, how you're going to support my child, how you're going to create something greater for all the people involved. You know, even the people who may be creating pain for him, like how can you bless them as well? ‘Cause I don't know how to do it. I don't know how to do it. So I'm going to wait for your divine intervention and I'm going to keep on leaning in and praying for that and asking for that until you show me, but I'm not going to contract and I'm not going to go into worry. But every time where it shows up, because it does show up, I'm going to go back to those three things. Thank you so much for showing me I contracted. I'm going to breathe life into myself and then I'm going to ask, I'm going to lean in. And this is where, like I, sorry, girls, where I’m going to have to swear - where I'm going to lean the f**k in. Like, there's just times where it's not just like a nice thing.
You're like all the way into that place because I don't have me right now. Like I don't even know how to have him. And that's a really difficult place for a mom to go. Like I don't, I don't know how to have you. I don't know how to make things better right now. But for whatever reason, something I know for sure is this is showing up in order to open something greater for you. So I don't know how to do that. I'm just going to keep on asking until it happens.
Jenna: That is such beautiful advice. And I think you just gave us all permission to not have the answers anymore. And I love that. I love that because we get so hung up on having the answers. Right. And, and, and I love that reminder that that pulls us into that contracted place. And, and it's all about allowing and surrendering and asking and knowing that yeah, there is that higher intelligence that greater force we can tap into.
That's beautiful. That was such a good reminder for me today. Thank you. Well, I think that's probably a good note to wrap up on. Um, and uh, I was going to ask you if you had any advice for our audience and I think you just answered it and then you're in your last comment. So, so maybe tell us, Tara, where people can find you, how can they get in touch with you if they're interested in working with you?
Tara: Sure. So my website is my name, so taramccallam.com. And then I also have a YouTube channel that is youtube.com/taramccallam.
Sinéad: And we'll include these in the show notes as well, Tara, to help people out.
Tara: And then I'm, I have a business page on Facebook too with - I just do little videos every once in a while to ask different questions and to give different perspectives on things, especially about teenagers, as well as like, relationships with others and the self.
So, Yeah. Beautiful. So follow, follow Tara. And like Sinead said, we've got Tara's links in the show notes. You can connect with her, and do share this if you know, couples, people, um, parents with kids who need support, um, Tara can be an excellent support system. I think you've probably all felt that, you know, in this episode - I certainly did - and gained just so much value from this conversation and I feel more connected to myself just having been here with you today, Tara. Thank you. Thank you for being with us.
Tara: You're welcome. Thanks for inviting me. And I, I love the fact that you feel more connected to yourself. I don't know that we can ask for anything greater.
Jenna: I know, right. And reminding us of our wholeness and to embrace that. That's so, so important. This was, I think, such an important conversation for so many. Yeah.
Sinéad: And, and how important it is - I mean, I want to emphasize again how important it is to reframe right? To remind ourselves that there are different ways of approaching life, different ways of seeing different ways of feeling and that our old habits and patterns are not where we need to stay. We can branch out in any way that we want to. So Tara, thank you so much for being with us and for bringing this. I wish we could keep talking for like another two hours. It might be too much for our listeners. So we'll have you back to talk more about this and, um, your artwork is just incredible and you do accept commissions. So people would like to have really inspiring spiritual art, powerful art in their home. They can also contact you about that. We'll include that in the show notes too, but Tara, honestly, it's been such a pleasure to be with you today as always. I just adore you as a friend, but also really admire you as somebody who's doing work and uh, in this field and you have such a unique perspective to bring.
Tara: Well, thank you.
Jenna: Thank you for being with us, it was so fun, so fun and everyone watching, don't forget to like, subscribe, leave a comment, let us know what resonated, let us know what you want to hear more about. Let us know what questions you have since we're asking questions instead of having all the answers now. And don't forget to check out the show notes, and we'll see y'all next time. Thanks for watching and tuning in. Thanks everyone.
Sinéad: Bye for now!